Pirate is over.

What @McCracken and @trailhugger said. I post way less and like way more because I have had to take my laptop home from work (not allowed anymore). When I need to know something I search for it. When I find it I throw the like on it. I hate trying to type with this tablet, it's a pain in the ass. When I'm home I'm either working or exhausted, neither is very good for contributing anything of value.
This forum and jeep-owner.com are the only 2 4X4 forums I daily read.
 
Been absent for a minute...

Frankly, few (new wheelers) people care about the tech any longer. They're not trying to build or make anything themselves; they want to buy it, bolt it, and go. I even see this in my kids- I'll expand more on them in the next paragraph... Most of us, dare I say old timers, have absorbed most of what we need- to our ability level. As much as I have always enjoyed forums, the like button killed interaction. That button has turned more into a 'seen' button than any type of appreciation, and I'm guilty of it too. Something I've always held high on my list, is interaction via a typed response. Even now on IG and FB, if someone types a response to my post- read- is affected or cares enough, takes the time to physically type something, I do the same in return to show appreciation for their time and/or input. Maybe it's just where my skillset has grown or just I'm just old and hard headed; I don't search for tech in forums any longer, it's not there. I go to the source, via direct message or a phone call. It's damn faster than the search. I've become acquaintances via internet friends or actually meeting with enough people now, I don't mind making the call. The tech I'm interested in isn't typically shared anyway with the growth of our sport in the racing arena. It also contributed to the death of tech in forums. I love NC4x4, but it's tech is near gone, relative to new, higher end input.

Back to my kids: mainly Carter who is 14 now. Some of you might remember that he has been my wheeling kid since he was 5. He has become a poster child of the instant gratification nation. We recently got back from a trip to Minnesota/ Wisconsin. On the trip I stopped to shop the comanche to someone whose been eyeing it a few years, not telling Carter my intentions. He realized what was happening and finally showed legitimate concern. Given, he applies zero input to the wheeling life, aside from jumping in the passenger seat. Never helps in the shop, never preps for a trip, never packs the cooler- hell doesn't even know how to release the ratchet strap on the lid, never secures the rock crawler to the trailer, or packs his own clothes... absolutely nothing. At the ultra 4 race at AOP last summer, I cut a tire pulling Ken Carter back to camp during his practice laps, Ken's (10ish iirc) son jumped on changing my spare while Carter stared at the sky with his thumb up his ass. In Minnesota, a family we paired up with had a 10 yr old with his own buggy, who could actually drive; made Carter look like a toddler, with his knowledge and ability. Carter puts in zero effort, but now he wants the comanche... go figure. Maybe I haven't been the best step dad because I'm not going to force them to spend time in the shop, but when I was a child and my father had a Harley shop, you couldn't tell where I ended and dad's ass began.

Soooooo, trying to be a better father than his dead beat sperm donor, I canceled the trade deal. Told Carter, I'm taking all the drive/ powertrain, shocks, bumps, wheels and tires, basically expensive hard parts to build me a new buggy; and he can have the chassis. He would have to buy the parts - many of which I have from my recycling ventures; axles, motors, wheels, used tires, e.t.c. In this deal, I explained I would not do the work for him, aside from instruction of tools and processes. He would buy consumables, materials and parts. It'll be a 1.5 year ordeal minimum. It was of great discussion on our trip. I intentionally bashed as many panels on the truck at possible... and succeeded in trashing every single one but the doors and tailgate. With every crunch, he cringed and complained. My reply; you will learn how to do repairs and modifications- you're not acquiring a perfect rig for you to destroy until boredom. You must invest your time and brain power to have a stake in it. So far, (only two weeks now), he has shown a great deal of enthusiasm and interest. He got my copper stripped in record time for him, has been practicing his Google-fu, we drug the super duty axles out of the weeds, and he's starting the de-junking of the factory brackets tomorrow. We'll see how this plays out. He has expressed concern on how he will buy the big ticket items, and I told him if his interest stays high and he shows me that he is invested, I'll help him on holidays with such pieces as partial gifts. Time will tell.

Anyways, I got off subject.

The following generations aren't interested in building something, they don't need tech. With poor credit even, they can go get a sxs loaded to the max, a tow rig, and a trailer: to do almost the same stuff we're doing with our crawlers that were mapped out with years of forum tech and absorption. My current and future customers are mostly capable of building their rigs, but they're of age, familial and careers that don't afford them the time any longer. They're established, and can afford to pay someone they trust to build their rig now.



I'll continue to post, and keep my shop thread, and probably a build thread on the new buggy. Likely less voluntary explanation than in the past, but if a question is asked I will expand. If you only want to see pretty pictures, y'all can come 'like' them on IG/FB [emoji1787].

As per forum history, this thread sucks without pics...

Matt
Cutlerfab
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I really hope Carter sticks with it. From what I’ve seen, he really doesn’t know just how lucky he has it around your place. Opportunity to earn a little cash, the tools, and the knowledgeable teacher. There’s still plenty of people on here working under shade trees when it’s not raining. I’m with you though brother, I already lost both my kids to electronics and hope I get a second chance later when they get older.
 
Beating it up last weekend makes a lot of sense now. I saw the damage previously and thought that was going to cost you a lot of time in the shop to fix.

Also, I can back up what you said about the "like" button. The threads/day and posts/day around here have stayed mostly the same over the years, but the use of the like button has increased almost exponentially.

I've got an entire spare body here he can replace with. Exactly what he can learn on. I advised him to wheel it like it is to learn to drive, then repair if he still felt the desire; but he's a kid and wants it to look cool.

How did I know you would have that statistic[emoji16]?

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Really just liked that out of spite. Haha.

The credit/finance comment is so damn true. I’ll never forget being at RBD a few years ago and the subject came up of how much a new Rzr runs and the guy only knew his payment. That’s it.

Awesome story and awesome project for the kid. If/when he gets it done and mine is done, I’ll drive mine in from Claudville and meet y’all at Odell’s for some food and general bench Wheelin. The lesson being taught strikes the right way with me, I’ve taken a similar approach recently to people wanting to come and hunt with me, mainly newer hunters. Want to come hunt, then come help pre-season. Hang stands, clear trails, plant food plots. Really see the work that goes into it. Not just show up and sit in a stand and drink beer.
Sounds great!

Exactly my reasoning.

Get this, he asked me when I was going to pull it in the shop...I scoffed and said "shop... you're not working in my shop, I make money and worked my ass off to have a shop. You're working under the shed, and bet be damn glad you have that, I built many rigs in a gravel drive with zero cover. You'll at least be shaded and dry. I'm giving you fine chassis , a grinder, you can borrow other tools, but you will buy the consumables from me..."

He still doesn't quite understand my logic, but he will, or I'll put it back together and sell it.

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I liked your post too. @shawn. and @mcutler

[emoji16]

Love this. I hope he sticks with it and you both get a lot out of the time together, if nothing else!

I like a lot of tech and photos in build threads because I can appreciate the work and ingenuity but don't have much to add. [emoji38]

You have permission to like anything you want my dear.

There's a lot of hard truth in that post . As much as I try I still can't get one of my kids to show initiative. Throw a tablet in front her and it's game on. Any form of labor or work and it's lights out. My youngest asks all the time about working on the Jeep. I have a feeling in the future that she'll be mad because me and youngest will be out doing things together. All she has to do is ask me anything and I'll show her what I know or take her anywhere. She has asked a few questions while I've been remodeling the basement but I'm talking about a 10 second stop to say, "what does that do?".

I think we have a lot of good parents on this board but I see a common theme with kids. I know it's a constant battle to try and keep kids engaged but I'm not naive enough to know that they all have different interests. The last couple of days I've spent thinking about how to get the older one more involved outdoors. About the only 100% guarantee is fishing. She'll do that almost without asking. Wheeling.... maybe that's not her thing and it's not a battle to try and fight.

As far as the tech goes. I still think there's value in forums. The reason you call people is because that's your instant gratification. You know who to call and that they'll know the answer. I can only imagine the number of calls @Jody Treadway receives each day. I do my best not to bother people. I'll search until I get stuck. For the people out there that don't have those connections I think they'll search too. The diesel bros and fake country kids will probably look on IG :flipoff2:

I feel your pain.

What @McCracken and @trailhugger said. I post way less and like way more because I have had to take my laptop home from work (not allowed anymore). When I need to know something I search for it. When I find it I throw the like on it. I hate trying to type with this tablet, it's a pain in the ass. When I'm home I'm either working or exhausted, neither is very good for contributing anything of value.
This forum and jeep-owner.com are the only 2 4X4 forums I daily read.

Totally understandable and happens to many I'm sure.

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I really hope Carter sticks with it. From what I’ve seen, he really doesn’t know just how lucky he has it around your place. Opportunity to earn a little cash, the tools, and the knowledgeable teacher. There’s still plenty of people on here working under shade trees when it’s not raining. I’m with you though brother, I already lost both my kids to electronics and hope I get a second chance later when they get older.

He really doesn't see it our way. He asks asinine questions, mostly about what color something can be[emoji2962]. He calls everything a 'thing' . And in turn I tell him, "you better somehow learn what something is before you ask me a question. There are lots of things on a motor vehicle. You have the world at your fingertips with the internet. I had magazines..."

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As far as the tech goes. I still think there's value in forums. The reason you call people is because that's your instant gratification. You know who to call and that they'll know the answer. I can only imagine the number of calls @Jody Treadway receives each day. I do my best not to bother people. I'll search until I get stuck.

That never happens. :flipoff2:

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@Jody Treadway

But what kills me is the guy that calls 5 different ppl, until he gets the answer he was looking for, then calls you back to argue with him over your answer vs the 5th dumbass[emoji43]

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Lemme be clear. I don't mind one bit helping people on here out. I evaluate a ton of pattern pics a month and do so gladly. There's a reason I give people my number. I'm happy to help.
That's totally different from random skoads who want something for nothing or haven't become friends with me like Chris has.
You know the drill.
If I give someone my number, you can assume they aren't a skoad in my book.
Aside from @Loganwayne, naturally.
 
Lemme be clear. I don't mind one bit helping people on here out. I evaluate a ton of pattern pics a month and do so gladly. There's a reason I give people my number. I'm happy to help.
That's totally different from random skoads who want something for nothing or haven't become friends with me like Chris has.
You know the drill.
If I give someone my number, you can assume they aren't a skoad in my book.
Aside from @Loganwayne, naturally.

Sweet thanks won’t be calling you next week for lunch then


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@Jody Treadway

But what kills me is the guy that calls 5 different ppl, until he gets the answer he was looking for, then calls you back to argue with him over your answer vs the 5th dumbass[emoji43]

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I find that to be the case for life in general. Only one way to skin a cat, my way, and I want positive reinforcement of that regardless of how shitty the facts/logic are to back up my position.
 
I find that to be the case for life in general. Only one way to skin a cat, my way, and I want positive reinforcement of that regardless of how shitty the facts/logic are to back up my position.
Right on[emoji1787][emoji1787]

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You don't want it but I'm going to throw it out there. @mcutler I'd be a little less rough. Maybe I'm reading the wrong tone but if you really want him in on the game then maybe a little softer approach is needed. My wife says this about me a lot. I'm very black and white with the kids. I want them to learn too but sometimes you have to coax them along. Just a suggestion (no smart ass intended).
 
The way I see it is that if you want to do a tech article you have to know that going into the project. You cant just do an axle swap lets say and grab a few photos and then go right it up. To do it right you have to constantly stop and take photos, make sure the lighting is right. Maybe stage a shot or two.Sometimes stop in mid stream of a weld bead or seating a fastener and take a photo. All this makes for a great write up but makes the project take twice or three times as long.
 
The way I see it is that if you want to do a tech article you have to know that going into the project. You cant just do an axle swap lets say and grab a few photos and then go right it up. To do it right you have to constantly stop and take photos, make sure the lighting is right. Maybe stage a shot or two.Sometimes stop in mid stream of a weld bead or seating a fastener and take a photo. All this makes for a great write up but makes the project take twice or three times as long.
Agreed

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Tech. Methinks a lot of folks might be willing to post at times, but don't because of certain types of feedback. Feeling average, not cutting edge, shinny, or cheap come to mind. The other part is being heckled in general. This is why I love this forum.....all those are at a minimum unless you earn it.

Out side NC is where I've started lurking for build stuff. Magazines are non existent. I've found a few You tube channels.

What are guys using as a resource these days? Not like I have 3 ring binders full. Be nice to have some go to places and start a real data base for knowledge I can't latch onto and retain indefinitely.

Tech come in many forms but I crave articles and write ups like the old Magazines and @Mac5005 started on suspension.

I like the what have you done to your rig thread because it is not a full blown build write up. But little tech over pictures.

Folks are busier than ever too. Making the perceived bar harder to hit @tknopp . The other side to that is the already known fact: many fall into the rarely wheeling group. Let alone building. As a statistic I wonder how many folks are building and wheeling consistently that post about those things over general chit chat. Then the numbers of the group that are pretty content with current rigs that are just on the sidelines (no need to contribute/research tech.)

I know where my jackstands lay.
 
What are guys using as a resource these days? Not like I have 3 ring binders full. Be nice to have some go to places and start a real data base for knowledge I can't latch onto and retain indefinitely.

Tech come in many forms but I crave articles and write ups like the old Magazines and @Mac5005 started on suspension.

Younger people aren't going anywhere for tech anymore it seems, they're going to the bank for money and going to a shop and saying "here, build me something." Then they're posting pics on Instagram for the likes. There are tons of cool builds on Facebook and/or Instagram, but hardly any tech accompanies the pics. I also find the platform hard to search, and I don't like having to follow Billy Bobs Garage and see pics of 15 bolt on JK builds for every one build I'm actually interested in.

Duane
 
You don't want it but I'm going to throw it out there. @mcutler I'd be a little less rough. Maybe I'm reading the wrong tone but if you really want him in on the game then maybe a little softer approach is needed. My wife says this about me a lot. I'm very black and white with the kids. I want them to learn too but sometimes you have to coax them along. Just a suggestion (no smart ass intended).

I'm picking up what your putting down. I'm very black and white too, but it's not a new thing, I've been consistent with all 3 boys, across the age range.

Carter is the middle child. Classic definition. His oldest brother is 20, a junior in college, playing football @ WSSU. Pretty much a golden ticket kid of responsible, mature, focused, and not brilliant but driven and with purpose. Mattix 8, my son, Carter's half brother but raised as whole, is golden ticket of intelligence, kindness, politeness, comprehension, good decision making, perfect student, an old soul.

Carter is wedged hard by wanting to be like his big bro, but wanting the attention like the baby. Carter has zero drive, decent grades (average intelligence) but terrible comprehension due to lack of effort not ability, (but frankly has the most natural athletic ability vs big bro, but won't work for his desired place). For years he has consistently relied on everyone else's brain surrounding him rather than think for himself. NEVER considers any consequence of his decisions and certainly not his actions. He had never lived with his father but is made just like him. They don't think the rules apply to them. Carter NEVER takes accountability for anything, it's never his fault, it was never his responsibility, always lays anything on the shoulders of someone else. He never believes anything you tell him, he never takes punishment without laughing and not taking it seriously. Will not do chores without absolutely being on his back to get them done. The blended family construct I'm sure has created some of this, I'm not naive to this. This has been the biggest anguish in our household for going on 3 years.

Please don't take all this criticism the wrong way; I love him as my own, he is a great kid, especially outside of our household. He's been my little buddy since he was 5, but his adolescence and brotherly familial competition has placed a strain on all the internal relationships. Always good reports from friends and family, polite, fun personality, generous, and on and on. But near zero of that happens inside our four walls.

He and I have had our ups and downs. But most recently he has burned a big bridge in my trust. Carson went to college, Carter wanted his job of stripping copper, (I have a machine for this, it's not hard, just repetitive). There's a load of brass components that are retrieved of the copper in the process. It would take him over a month what Carson would do in 4-5 days. All the while relentlessly interrupting me while working fabrication. Always, "I can't, can't" never one to problem solve. Always needing a hand hold. Last load he did in 2019 (about 5 a year), I noticed there was processed and unprocessed copper and brass scattered in the woods behind my shop. I don't mean a few pieces, but a few hundred pounds. Not just neatly tossed, but scattered over a 200'x50' area... that took some effort, but not as much as it would take to do the job properly. When confronted, it went from "I didn't do it..." to "i didn't want to do the work..." Absolutely ZERO remorse, ZERO apology, ZERO accountability, ZERO understanding that he had done ANYTHING wrong. Nothing but smiles and smirks. Even now, 6 months later he still laughs and smiles like it was ok to basically steal from his pocket and his families livelihood. And this dismissive attitude is all day every day.

With all that said, I refuse to turn my head. I won't give up on him, or back down on what he needs to be successful in life. I'm harder on him than the others, but that's the only way he responds. The brothers don't require that. Which I realize looks different to Carter than it does me.

Sorry, that got long. I vented. My wife is supportive of both mine and the boys points of view. It took a few years for her to catch on to my plight of the blended father hood.

I lost my parents at 19. With two younger brothers, we could have gone 40 ways to hell, but we didn't. No one held our hands, no one felt it necessary to guide us because our parents did a great job in only 19 years. I try to stress to my boys that they could easily be on their own at the blink of an eye... but are they ready and capable to do so if something happened....?


What was the title of this thread again...

[emoji28][emoji28][emoji3061]

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I find that to be the case for life in general. Only one way to skin a cat, my way, and I want positive reinforcement of that regardless of how shitty the facts/logic are to back up my position.


That's some serious Fuller philosophy right there! Not backing the dude, but that's what he's normally flamed for! #needsmoretriangles
 
Younger people aren't going anywhere for tech anymore it seems, they're going to the bank for money and going to a shop and saying "here, build me something." Then they're posting pics on Instagram for the likes. There are tons of cool builds on Facebook and/or Instagram, but hardly any tech accompanies the pics. I also find the platform hard to search, and I don't like having to follow Billy Bobs Garage and see pics of 15 bolt on JK builds for every one build I'm actually interested in.

Duane
So I need to find young people's interest and tap into their credit!?! In our recreation I see few young people, let alone young people with money. Excluding Mail crawlers and Diesel Brother Fan Boys.
 
Also, I can back up what you said about the "like" button. The threads/day and posts/day around here have stayed mostly the same over the years, but the use of the like button has increased almost exponentially.
Sorry :flipoff2:
 
That's some serious Fuller philosophy right there! Not backing the dude, but that's what he's normally flamed for! #needsmoretriangles

Pretty easy to do with mob mentality these days. Hell, even Pirate 10 years ago was that way. Guys that were relevant 20 years ago and did some cool stuff, but didn’t stay with the times, just had to tell some dude with a new thought process to drink some bleach or suck start a shotgun, and the minions and nut swingers would handle the rest. Only difference is, I don’t think Fuller has ever done anything cool/well enough to garner a following that will white knight for him.
 
So I need to find young people's interest and tap into their credit!?! In our recreation I see few young people, let alone young people with money. Excluding Mail crawlers and Diesel Brother Fan Boys.

Not gonna lie money is a big factor why would dont have a rig right now. It’s pretty easy to get into something cheap, but at some point your skills start getting past your rig. Then the next step is a big increase in money, add in its harder and to have places to go (places closing) I can’t justify spending the money on a new rig that I’ll use 4-6 times a year.


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So I need to find young people's interest and tap into their credit!?! In our recreation I see few young people, let alone young people with money. Excluding Mail crawlers and Diesel Brother Fan Boys.

I’ve got a few under 25 customers/friends that I help with their stuff. But honestly it’s annoying because they chase likes, and get rather big headed over followers when they aren’t even the ones that built it. And damn sure aren’t Ricky Bobby behind the wheel, and their trail etiquette sucks. It’s a social status for a lot of folks.
 
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