Doe Mountain OHV - Mountain City, TN

GotLime? said:
I just don't undertsand where the line is drawn and why.
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I understand. Let me try to shed some light on it if I can.

Since I sold my crawler and got into ATV's and dirt bikes I have spent way more money on trips and riding in the last 4 months than the last 2 years with the crawler. The fact of the matter is there are a lot more atv's and dirt bikes than crawlers. The trails don't need to be as wide. Also the campsite we stay at is one of many. But every weekend it's booked solid. You have to call in 1-2 months in advance to get a cabin. They are doing away with tent sites and are putting in more cabins and full hookups only. Every weekend there is alot of money spent there. I've been to Callantee where myself and one other person I brought with me were the only people there and camping. That's a big difference. The impact that HMT has had on the WV economy has been staggering. Over half a million in increased tax revenue for the state. Several million in income and quality of life. I'm sure TN is looking at this. And I doubt that 4x4's will bring in the millions. I could be wrong I don't know what the numbers for Tellico were.

Also I ride with and have met a bunch of people from NC at HMT. I know a lot of them pass Uwharrie to come to HMT for the main reason is there are no 4x4's. I was surprised to hear this. They said that the 4x4's are just too slow and get in teh way, then they have to get around them. I've met enough people that have said this to me that I wonder how much money Uwharrie is losing by letting in 4x4's. I've run a couple dual purpose trails with the crawler then with the bikes/atvs. I never realized it in a crawler but you are holding up the smaller machines. We joke about it know but we call 4x4's trail plugs.

Also in some instances people don't realize they are in the way they park on blind corners and we come around quicker on the bikes and there is an accident. This happened to us at Harlan. My buddy was leading and he came off a berm around a corner and rig was parked in the trail. He ran into them and I was right behind him on a quad and ran into him. Fortunately nobody was hurt. I certainly don't think it was done on purpose, and surely some blame can be placed on us.

While I think Doe Mtn should be open to 4x4's. It also means if there are crawlers there I may go once or twice but I'll go mostly to HMT where I wouldn't have to deal with it.

Just a little insight not an attack.
 
I can understand that from the ATV/motorcyle pont of view.

I wonder how hikers feel about mountain bikers?

I wonder how mountain bikers feel about horses?

I wonder how horses feel about ATVs?

I wounder how ATvs feel about side by sides?
 
As someone who rode dirt bikes most of my life, I agree with Hadfield4wd. 'Jeeps' are trail plugs and hard to get around when you are on a dirt bike or fourwheeler. I believe most four wheeler and dirt bike riders dislike 'Jeeps' for that single reason. It sounds like the opening of Doe Mountain is being done by an ATV group, so they naturally are not going to want to allow 'Jeeps'.
 
GotLime? said:
I can understand that from the ATV/motorcyle pont of view.

I wonder how hikers feel about mountain bikers?

I wonder how mountain bikers feel about horses?

I wonder how horses feel about ATVs?

I wounder how ATvs feel about side by sides?
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I can answer some of these. I'm a mountain biker as well. We share trails with hikers and horses. I don't mind them or the hikers. When we see horses we get off the trail and keep noise down not to spook them.

When we hike with the family we do the same trails sometimes as well.

I don't know about how the horses feel.
 
hadfield4wd said:
I can answer some of these. I'm a mountain biker as well. We share trails with hikers and horses. I don't mind them or the hikers. When we see horses we get off the trail and keep noise down not to spook them.

When we hike with the family we do the same trails sometimes as well.

I don't know about how the horses feel.
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The question was semi-rhetorical. We all have someone below and above us on the "food chain". Like 250krawler said, if we divide, we make ourselves easier to conquer.

Looks like this deal was a pipe dream from the get go. If I see "conservancy" in someone's title, I know they're not pro-wheeler.

If being a "trail plug" was the only qualification for keeping a group off the trail, where would all the Rovers go? :lol:
 
I never cared much for the ATV crowd myself.Reason bein those fools would come around blind curves/hills goin too fast.Tellico was the worst for this.
 
GotLime? said:
The question was semi-rhetorical. We all have someone below and above us on the "food chain". Like 250krawler said, if we divide, we make ourselves easier to conquer.

Looks like this deal was a pipe dream from the get go. If I see "conservancy" in someone's title, I know they're not pro-wheeler.
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So true:driver:

GotLime? said:
If being a "trail plug" was the only qualification for keeping a group off the trail, where would all the Rovers go? :lol:
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Those rover guys are "different":alien:
 
i'll toss one over to the four wheelers just because I feel the need to. At Tellico, in all the years I wheeled, I saw more spider trails created by four wheelers than the "trail plugs". they were all over the place on Slickrock. I can say the same for Windrock and Harlan. I've almost become used to seeing them everytime I go out somewhere. The classic illegal trails are on steep banks where they try to use them like a ramp.

anyway, I do agree that we need to work together but you have to accept my faults just like I have to accept yours.
 
McCracken said:
i'll toss one over to the four wheelers just because I feel the need to. At Tellico, in all the years I wheeled, I saw more spider trails created by four wheelers than the "trail plugs". they were all over the place on Slickrock. I can say the same for Windrock and Harlan
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Esp over around the stadium at Harlan,even though they clearly have it posted not to be there.
 
GotLime? said:
The question was semi-rhetorical. We all have someone below and above us on the "food chain". Like 250krawler said, if we divide, we make ourselves easier to conquer...
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Absolutely! We may all drive different types and sizes of OHV's, but we're still part of the same community...we have to be to survive
 
While i ride ATVs also & can understand where they come from, its different riding.

Most the mtn bikers i know don't want to share the trails with atvs or fullsize because of the danger of accidents.

There is enough land that everyone could have their own trail systems on the mtn & each maintain their own.

United but separate.

Sent via telegraph
 
paradisePWoffrd said:
Most the mtn bikers i know don't want to share the trails with atvs or fullsize because of the danger of accidents.
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Yeah pretty sure I wouldn't want to come flying a downhill to run into an ATV or fullsize. That would hurt, alot.

paradisePWoffrd said:
There is enough land that everyone could have their own trail systems on the mtn & each maintain their own.

United but separate.
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So true. I wish this community would do that. I'd support full size rigs completely.

Interestingly some of the places I ride are 1 way trails for the reasons above. This way less chance of injury.
 
There is enough land that everyone could have their own trail systems on the mtn & each maintain their own.

United but separate.
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But there's not really, we struggle enough to keep the trails we have. That would be an ideal situation but i don't see it happening. Mtn bikers and horses and hikers can have there own due to the low impact they have as compared to motorized offroad use.

:D 83% Sure it's not 84%
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You said it yourself, there's more ATVers than Full size 4wd's so even if we did litter the same amount yall would still litter more. I'd be willing to bet that's a pretty accurate number and that %90 of all the off shoot trails are made by ATV'ers.

.
 
paradisePWoffrd said:
While i ride ATVs also & can understand where they come from, its different riding.

Most the mtn bikers i know don't want to share the trails with atvs or fullsize because of the danger of accidents.

There is enough land that everyone could have their own trail systems on the mtn & each maintain their own.

United but separate.

Sent via telegraph
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I agree. 8,600 acres is plenty of room for vehicle specific trails.
 
250krawler said:
that equates to about 13.5 square miles FYI. Considering its not square and usable land area, thats not alot at all.
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Supposedly there are already 100 miles of trails on Doe Mountain. Uwharrie only has 16 miles of trails I think? I believe 13.5 sq miles is a tremendous amount of room. All they have to do is wrap the trails around a bunch. Look at the Flats. I think it is 70-100 acres, and they have created a ton of great trails in that area.
 
250krawler said:
You said it yourself, there's more ATVers than Full size 4wd's so even if we did litter the same amount yall would still litter more. I'd be willing to bet that's a pretty accurate number
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I thought you were joking. I don't think its accurate. I don't see as much garbage at HMT as I did at Harlan, Callantee, Uwharrie. There are exceptions to every rule. When you hit what they call the "outlaw" trail there is more garbage.


250krawler said:
that %90 of all the off shoot trails are made by ATV'ers.

.
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I wouldn't say 90% but definately a majority of off shoot trails. When wheeling Potts mtn which is for the most part full size rigs, due to being lisenced and tagged there are off shoot, but not as near as many. And when they do sprout up the FS starts ticketing and closing them down. Mostly bypasses to obstacles.
 
I've had to think on this for a few days, it seems to me that either I'm not understanding the 4-wheeler community or they're not understanding us. I know what I spent in the local community of Mountain City when I used to go to Callalantee. I usually spent $100-$150 in fuel and another approx $50 at the local grocery store. I'm up to close to $200 and I haven't got to the park yet, now figure in the trail pass and any parts store runs for breakage. At this point I have contributed a substantial amount to the local economy. Now this is just me, we normally go with 8-10 other rigs spending approx the same amount of money. Now factor that by however many rigs other than my group are there per day or weekend. That adds up pretty quickly in dollars going to the local community, plus motel rooms and any other weekend expenses.

So my thought is this............and it's just a thought. To show how serious we (the 4x4 community) are why not start an on-line petition for the 4x4 community committing to support the park and spending money in the local community. If the yearly trail passes are $65 and 1000 people commit to buying trail passes, well that's $65,000 toward the park and by selling trail passes the other money flows to the local community. I'm not tech savvy at all, but if an on-line petition were to be started and stated that we're committing to them and the success of the park, do ya'll think that would help us gain any traction with the powers that be? Just a thought.
 
hadfield4wd said:
:D 83% Sure it's not 84%
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My math shows an error of approximately 1.5%, so yes that's possible :D

My take on it:
ATVs and 4x4s just don't mix. If this is about revenue - which really it should be - then the money is in an ATV park, not 4x4s. By a wide margin.
The only way that angle will work is to convince them that the addition of 4x4s is substantial revenue - enough on top of what they will rake in already from ATVs to justify all the addition work/problems that will come with it.
 
T-bone71 said:
I've had to think on this for a few days, it seems to me that either I'm not understanding the 4-wheeler community or they're not understanding us. I know what I spent in the local community of Mountain City when I used to go to Callalantee. I usually spent $100-$150 in fuel and another approx $50 at the local grocery store. I'm up to close to $200 and I haven't got to the park yet, now figure in the trail pass and any parts store runs for breakage. At this point I have contributed a substantial amount to the local economy. Now this is just me, we normally go with 8-10 other rigs spending approx the same amount of money. Now factor that by however many rigs other than my group are there per day or weekend. That adds up pretty quickly in dollars going to the local community, plus motel rooms and any other weekend expenses.
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I think the problem isn't with how much you and "we" spend - It's the sheer difference in quantity of participants.
For every guy that has a 4x4 they actually take offroad (to the extent of spending significant cash) there are probably 10 guys that ride an ATV, UTV, or bike. Plus, the typical ATV excursion costs less (don't have to spend as much on fuel, less likely need for repairs etc) and requires less effort to do, and so and can be done more often by the average hobbyist. This all adds up to a lot more participants per year - e.g. more local revenue brought in.
 
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