90's throw back.....Manche build

[jyaks]

Where did you find all these bolt on parts? I'm trying to buy a manche and build it like this.

 

[mcutler]

Still not home... gotta love holiday interstate traffic...

Gonna spend the evening with my boy Mattix, missing him.

I'll post a lengthy trip recap and few pics tomorrow.

Matt

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[mcutler]

Finally [emoji482].

I'll try to break this up into a couple posts so that it may be easier to quote for questions or comments.

Enjoyed thanksgiving with the family in the afternoon and then back to the shop. My good friend @jeepn-jason (go to @336jlc on Instagram for first drive video, sorry I don't know how to link from IG) came over to give me a hand for the final touches; thanks again buddy! Finished the passenger tins and put the seats and harnesses in for the final time about 11pm. My stepson and first co-pilot Carter has a video on Instagram as well (@toddcarterjames) but his account is private, you will need to request to follow to view.

Loaded and ready to travel for RBD around 3am.

10 a.m. arrival to Stevenson Alabama @bustedknuckleorp for RBD 2017.

Few wheeling pics courtesy of @jeconn. Sorry I don't have more, but my little co-pilot is to lazy to get out for pics or winch assistance.... Just ask @jeconn and Mike Houston...[emoji849]... Carter caught a little hell for that. (But he sure does photo and video a bunch of silliness like most 11 year olds...)

Cont...

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[mcutler]

Before and after...

@bustedknuckle and @madram11 media

I don't do Facebook, but if you like go check out their walk around and comments... there's some funny in there. (I looked through on my wife's account).

No more pics, but if anyone was present feel free to post here, it would be much appreciated.

Cont...

 

[XJsavage]

I thought id never do fb again, but it's not that bad. There's a lot covered on there about the ride. when or if you do sign up, look for Robert Reed (me). That goes for anyone reading also.
Sorry I couldn't make it. I was sick as hell Wed-Fri.

 

[mcutler]

... and now the real nuts and bolts....

I'm going to call the first run a real success. I pulled 3 wrenches all weekend.

-First was before I even unloaded; driving 6 hours through the night and sunrise, checklist after checklist running through my head, and realized I never hooked the battery negative on the winch after the last trip on the lift, so that happened right away once parked. (15mm and 14mm, so much for milspec battery terminals... Lol )
- second was on day two, after removing the doors and installing the tube door bars (3/4")

No wrenches were turned all weekend for any repairs. I deem that a success, mechanically.

Trail wise, nothing but impressed. Especially considering that the tire size ratio of TSL 43" stickies to any other size or brand was about 9:1 out of over 500 rigs (1100 ppl registered for the weekend) - (aside from sxs's).

I had the pleasure of following @jeconn and Mike all day Friday and again Saturday afternoon. Except for when I spotted a creekbed and waterfall and went rouge... forcing them to follow me to a dead end, lol.

The truck worked fantastic. It had its share of difficulties, as I expected it would, due to a couple factors;

-tire size as mentioned above- following 43's, once the black dirt gets turned to the top... it's an uphill battle.
- driver error/ unfamiliarity with the new truck; going from buggy to full body, simply learning curve to-
-approach and departure angle, which is great, but not a buggy
- visibility; which I'm sure any other xj/mj owner can testify is mediocre to say the least....i need a rear view mirror; strapped in its hard to turn to see with the B posts of the cab.
- side hill clearance for bed, running higher on a hill to have enough room for slip to stay off sheet metal on trees; but that 42° steering and being 7 inches narrower outside of tires (of my old Chevy 60 and 43's) and 115 wb sure helps with maneuverability!.. and the tires did great in these scenarios, I must say.


Things that were not an issue;
-approach/ departure angle; never touched the front bumper or winch surround, only the push bar, and the rear bumper did its job on the corners, never touched the body.
- belly height (16.5"), has some scars but never held me up. The pinion guard was the biggest hindrance all weekend.
- trailing arms did not slow me down nor did they turn and damage the shocks, but there are plenty of scars to know that there was plenty of opportunity to do so.
-ZERO mechanical, wiring, or plumbing problems- typical seepage of a few fittings due to extreme heat and cold cycles but not an issue to speak of.
- TIRES; rode the krtb's all weekend. Stuck like glue to rock and worked great in the loose. They don't have the ease that a tsl does in the black loose, but I wasn't disappointed. And I haven't ran a radial in 15 years, so I was at 15psi entire time versus the 6-7 I ran in bias.
- engine and trans temps stayed at operating temperature all weekend, never ran hot; always a good thing!
- Yukon hard-core hubs were flawless
-ZERO driveshaft vibrations throughout travel!

... cont...

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[mcutler]

The big 3...

Suspension, body damage, interior heat... in that order lol.

SUSPENSION;
Can't say enough good things about it so far. The tune is so close for trail riding, I didn't even fiddle with the DSC adjusters all weekend. It just worked. It really soaked up the rough and was comfortable- firm but comfortable through the trails. I like firm. Not jarring, but planted and stable. Only thing I think needs to change directly is free rebound in the rear, needs faster drop on downhill shelves. Almost sounded like piston plunge when dropping a big shelf but it was a shorter, more abrupt 'swish', almost like shaking a maracas.
Side stability is superb. The best I've ever had. Never felt like it was in danger of tipping, or that I couldn't apply the throttle when in that position.
Uphill absolutely no push off that I could feel. Never had the opportunity to open it up in the rough at high speed, but we did do some accelerated trail riding Saturday night; needs some valving there- more high speed dampening, less low speed dampening (but trail riding might suffer with those changes internally) ; never used all the rear bumps. But I'll play with the DSC there first before I go back in the shocks. Sway bar is good so far.

Can't describe how excited I am about the suspension so far!


BODY DAMAGE;

We did a little. The factory passenger cab B post, rear door post and drip rail got a massage while winching and slipped into it. Not terrible, I can easily repair. I had planned to do some plate work along the drip rail; (somewhat of a rub rail but out of time beforehand) which would have prevented all damage there this trip. I will be making this modification very soon.

You can see it in this pic

Passengers bed in front of wheel got a little tree limb divot, nothing worse than the original condition of the truck panels, it will be dollied back quickly enough.

No tire rub on any sheet metal or front inner fender/ footwell. Rear tires tuck nicely behind fenders.

Truck still looks great.

INTERIOR HEAT

As we all suspected, their is some significant heat in the cab. All my shielding didn't arrive in time (and still isn't here...) so very little was installed for this trip. Drivers footwell panels are the only ones that were shielded.
Friday we rode with the doors on. (60°ambient temp) it was warm inside. Moving through the trails was tolerable, but in a severe stand still beating we were dripping.
Saturday we took the doors off (same temp) and it was fine, (and we did use the heater Saturday night with no doors). Warm on the legs but fine otherwise. Summertime it would be an issue but ok this time of year.

Ill be doing more shielding and report back with results.

Otherwise cab comfort is what you might expect from watching the build thread; cozy. I was extremely comfortable, even with an hour or two of seat time. Your cozy enough that you don't rattle around... There isn't room, lol. But seriously the gas leg is supported from the knee to ankle and the brake leg rest against the A pillar and you don't get banged up. Can't say enough good things about the PRP harnesses either, love them.

Two interesting heating issues, one of which I had anticipated;

Unanticipated:

With the tube door bars installed (quick pins moved fine) but once the truck got warm, you couldn't get them out, had to get out buggy style over the door bar, lmao. After it sat for 10 minutes not running, they slid right out!
Remedy; I'll be slotting the pin hole north to south to alleviate this, that should keep them free without rattles.

Anticipated;
Winch. Heat on the winch from the radiator. Hot enough, you need gloves on to pull the rope on free spool. And I didn't have time to clock the free spool handle, so it was easy to skin a knuckle on the fan for that reason.
Remedy; clock winch motor, and build a heat shield over the drum.

(We did snap the rope dragging through some rocks; but in defense this smittybuilt 10k lived on my ton yj for a couple years and then sat on my shelf for 7 years collecting lots of metal dust.)

Ill be purchasing a new rope and thimble here soon.

Overall, I'm 100% happy with the trip. Ready to get it cleaned up, make the necessary modifications, and plan the next ride.


Big thanks to @jeconn and Mike for being my test ride trail guides and winch guys. We winched 3-4 times due to driver error and stupid pinion guards. But gladly, rest of the weekend was winch free after having some trail knowledge and seat time in the new truck.


Matt





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[WARRIORWELDING]

So beside building killer rigs; looks like a small career could be had in writing tech articles. Great write up and great to here about true performance. Top notch as usually Mr. Cutler.

 

[mcutler]

So beside building killer rigs; looks like a small career could be had in writing tech articles. Great write up and great to here about true performance. Top notch as usually Mr. Cutler.

If they would pay for the parts, I'd do some tech, lol.

Thanks Andrew

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[upnover]

Glad to hear of this success! Now make some plans to get down to Davids for a few, so we can get him back on the trail too!
Oh and yeah I agree with Drew, your writes ups, are publishable quality!

 

[C.Berry]

Before and after...

@bustedknuckle and @madram11 media

I don't do Facebook, but if you like go check out their walk around and comments... there's some funny in there. (I looked through on my wife's account).

No more pics, but if anyone was present feel free to post here, it would be much appreciated.

Cont...

I seen ya manche on a fb group and plugged nc4x4.com so folks can see the build! I don't do pirate so glad the builds on here!! Any videos of it?

 

[mcutler]

I seen ya manche on a fb group and plugged nc4x4.com so folks can see the build! I don't do pirate so glad the builds on here!! Any videos of it?

Not that I'm aware of. Carter is too lazy too get out... lol.

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[C.Berry]

lol I know the struggle, Our 12 yr old is the same way...

 

[ghost]

I feel very blessed one of my twins is at Florence Darlington Tech learning to be a machinist and working full time 40 hours a week at Roller Bearing Corporation.... Makes me feel like I did something right as a parent.... You should bring that up to my Birthday Bash I'm planning in January.....

 

[Loganwayne]

i forgot to find the groups you build has been posted in... that said busted knuckles video of your rig has been seen almost 180,000 times shared almost 1700 times and has 5-600 comments. and thats just from their site not including all the comments shares and views from everywhere else.... dont plan on wheeling it, cause everyone is gonna wanna see it in person. its also not much of a sleeper anymore lol

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

Gonna be a trend setter, watch and see!

I'll bet a good group of folk are already scheming more realistic looking performance base sleepers. The whole bouncer scene is so over done. The lack of originality has boiled down to throwing huge amounts of near useless tube at a rig. Bonus points for double pillars and egg shaped rolled tube members. Almost as ridiculous as quad shocked everything from the eighties.

 

[mcutler]

Gonna be a trend setter, watch and see!

I'll bet a good group of folk are already scheming more realistic looking performance base sleepers. The whole bouncer scene is so over done. The lack of originality has boiled down to throwing huge amounts of near useless tube at a rig. Bonus points for double pillars and egg shaped rolled tube members. Almost as ridiculous as quad shocked everything from the eighties.

This is something i heard a lot this weekend. Even including cj/yj/tj/jk/fj style tube buggies. There are so many companies and builders who have a great buggy formula that works extremely well, and are very attractive... But once the skins are all on, it's difficult to tell them apart- especially in the woods, unless you're like myself and eat/sleep/dream this shit. I certainly don't fault any company/ builder for their chosen path, cuz its all about what works and sells. But for those of us burdened with originality, that just won't do. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the classic lines of Jim's garage, M&M, TMR, Goatbuilt, jimmy's and such- especially when they are finished turn key; but sometimes the rolling chassis finishers at home canvas it like everything else, or worse, fuck it up. I have mad respect for the above mentioned guys and many more, they have my dream career to a degree, and I wish them the utmost success for many years to come. And I don't fault anyone for taking on the challenge of finishing out their rolling chassis because in the end its all about playing in the woods with something we built with our own hands. We all have the same end goal.

OBSERVATION;
Just as a people watcher at this event ( and many others) , side by sides are taking over in numbers versus full size. It's great for the popularity of off road, keeps more numbers interested in having land access. The thing that separates the two, imho, if you have good credit (and I applaud those that do, not always easy to maintain), you can own the baddest sxs with all the top gear installed, and get out and enjoy the woods. You can't easily do that with a turn key buggy type rig. The average age gap between the two is substantial. You'll see more twenty somethings in a built sxs, versus 40 somethings (read- established adults) in a built buggy; as well as a difference in respect for the land and your peers. Its all growth, I'm not faulting anyone, just something I pay attention to as a ppl watcher. It may very well shape the future of off road over the next 10 years.

I hope everyone keeps building. Classic buggy, bouncer, sleeper, jeep, fj, sxs, I don't care. As long as we get to keep wheeling.

Matt

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[paradisePWoffrd]

Gonna be a trend setter, watch and see!

I'll bet a good group of folk are already scheming more realistic looking performance base sleepers. The whole bouncer scene is so over done. The lack of originality has boiled down to throwing huge amounts of near useless tube at a rig. Bonus points for double pillars and egg shaped rolled tube members. Almost as ridiculous as quad shocked everything from the eighties.

There are a number of Ultra4 style rigs already being built in a similar fashion to this one. I think alot of folks will have the desire too, but not sure too many have the drive/talent to put in the extra work vs just bending some tube.

This is something i heard a lot this weekend. Even including cj/yj/tj/jk/fj style tube buggies. There are so many companies and builders who have a great buggy formula that works extremely well, and are very attractive... But once the skins are all on, it's difficult to tell them apart- especially in the woods, unless you're like myself and eat/sleep/dream this shit. I certainly don't fault any company/ builder for their chosen path, cuz its all about what works and sells. But for those of us burdened with originality, that just won't do. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the classic lines of Jim's garage, M&M, TMR, Goatbuilt, jimmy's and such- especially when they are finished turn key; but sometimes the rolling chassis finishers at home canvas it like everything else, or worse, fuck it up. I have mad respect for the above mentioned guys and many more, they have my dream career to a degree, and I wish them the utmost success for many years to come. And I don't fault anyone for taking on the challenge of finishing out their rolling chassis because in the end its all about playing in the woods with something we built with our own hands. We all have the same end goal.

OBSERVATION;
Just as a people watcher at this event ( and many others) , side by sides are taking over in numbers versus full size. It's great for the popularity of off road, keeps more numbers interested in having land access. The thing that separates the two, imho, if you have good credit (and I applaud those that do, not always easy to maintain), you can own the baddest sxs with all the top gear installed, and get out and enjoy the woods. You can't easily do that with a turn key buggy type rig. The average age gap between the two is substantial. You'll see more twenty somethings in a built sxs, versus 40 somethings (read- established adults) in a built buggy; as well as a difference in respect for the land and your peers. Its all growth, I'm not faulting anyone, just something I pay attention to as a ppl watcher. It may very well shape the future of off road over the next 10 years.

I hope everyone keeps building. Classic buggy, bouncer, sleeper, jeep, fj, sxs, I don't care. As long as we get to keep wheeling.

Matt

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The biggest difference too is, the number of folks who want to build something is diminishing. If some of the big fabricators could get setup as a manufacturer, they could offer financing on rigs too, and maybe take back some of the sxs crowd.

 

[Jody Treadway]

@mcutler please don't take it as anything short of flattery when I set what's left of my sheet metal on a chassis table that is supporting a subframe sometime next year.
So many times when people come into my shop and see my truck I mention your name and this build. Why? Because everything that is wrong with my Ranger would be corrected by doing what you did to the MJ. I have literally said the following a dozen times "If I had Matt's talent, I would cut out my firewall, set my engine and trans back 12" and solve all of my up travel and suspension geometry issues."

Kudos Matt. You did an absolutely astounding job.

 

[mcutler]

@mcutler please don't take it as anything short of flattery when I set what's left of my sheet metal on a chassis table that is supporting a subframe sometime next year.
So many times when people come into my shop and see my truck I mention your name and this build. Why? Because everything that is wrong with my Ranger would be corrected by doing what you did to the MJ. I have literally said the following a dozen times "If I had Matt's talent, I would cut out my firewall, set my engine and trans back 12" and solve all of my up travel and suspension geometry issues."

Kudos Matt. You did an absolutely astounding job.

Thanks Jody....hmmm... get to work

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[CasterTroy]

Matt, I think the Manche could use a little sarcasm

 

[mcutler]

Matt, I think the Manche could use a little sarcasm

View attachment 258463

Covered...its just not as blatant...

Figure out that vacuum routing for me jiffy lube... there's a vin plate there too...

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[mcutler]

Nice for her to be clean again (interior not done yet) ....so purdy...

... and a couple for size reference next to my f450 crew.

It really looks and feels small too me versus my buggy, don't know if it's just the tire size or cockpit coziness.

Matt

 

[paradisePWoffrd]

I like the manche more then I probly should, as an XJ version has been floating in my brain for far too many yrs; but I am looking forward to seeing you tear into the EB. I might get some motivation and inspiration.

 

[mcutler]

I like the manche more then I probly should, as an XJ version has been floating in my brain for far too many yrs; but I am looking forward to seeing you tear into the EB. I might get some motivation and inspiration.

Not going to be much to see there. Street stock resto. 5.0, c4, stock Dana 44's, maybe 35's, never off road. . Street driver for my buddy and his two young daughters.

Thanks Ben.

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