3 links rule, everyone else is just jealous

jeepinmatt said:
Care to elaborate on this?
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Yup. I can admit when my lack of engineering and/or fab skills cause(d) an issue.
On my old MJ, I had built a typical crossmember out of 2x4x1/2" from rail to rail. Held in place with a boad load of fasteners. To get my upper link angle where I wanted, I built a tower vertically on top of the crossmember, welded and with a gusset coming off the rear of it. The gusset went from tower to crossmember. Make sense?
On a 8' near vertical drop at the Windrock ECORS race, I pogo'ed the front axle. The force pushed the link back and ripped the tower off the crossmember. Welds held fine. Just not adequate additional bracing.
It took out the shocks, tranny lines, bellhousing, exhaust, oil pan, pinion yoke literally went into the crank. Driveshaft was bent, etc.
I actually held the starter into the flywheel in order to drive it back to the trailer.
Was definitely a fiasco.
 
Jody Treadway said:
Yup. I can admit when my lack of engineering and/or fab skills cause(d) an issue.
On my old MJ, I had built a typical crossmember out of 2x4x1/2" from rail to rail. Held in place with a boad load of fasteners. To get my upper link angle where I wanted, I built a tower vertically on top of the crossmember, welded and with a gusset coming off the rear of it. The gusset went from tower to crossmember. Make sense?
On a 8' near vertical drop at the Windrock ECORS race, I pogo'ed the front axle. The force pushed the link back and ripped the tower off the crossmember. Welds held fine. Just not adequate additional bracing.
It took out the shocks, tranny lines, bellhousing, exhaust, oil pan, pinion yoke literally went into the crank. Driveshaft was bent, etc.
I actually held the starter into the flywheel in order to drive it back to the trailer.
Was definitely a fiasco.
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Just wanted to make sure it wasn't the link :laughing:. I just put @strange1 's freshly threaded toob in the mail this afternoon ;)
 
jeepinmatt said:
Just wanted to make sure it wasn't the link :laughing:. I just put @strange1 's freshly threaded toob in the mail this afternoon
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Thanks for looking out. Lol. Seems that most of the horror stories I have seen involve mounting the upper to a crossmember instead of the inside of the frame.
 
Jody Treadway said:
Yup. I can admit when my lack of engineering and/or fab skills cause(d) an issue.
On my old MJ, I had built a typical crossmember out of 2x4x1/2" from rail to rail. Held in place with a boad load of fasteners. To get my upper link angle where I wanted, I built a tower vertically on top of the crossmember, welded and with a gusset coming off the rear of it. The gusset went from tower to crossmember. Make sense?
On a 8' near vertical drop at the Windrock ECORS race, I pogo'ed the front axle. The force pushed the link back and ripped the tower off the crossmember. Welds held fine. Just not adequate additional bracing.
It took out the shocks, tranny lines, bellhousing, exhaust, oil pan, pinion yoke literally went into the crank. Driveshaft was bent, etc.
I actually held the starter into the flywheel in order to drive it back to the trailer.
Was definitely a fiasco.
Click to expand...

Should I be concerned with running this style bracket on a crossmember?

The cross member is bolted and welded on one side with brackets that sandwich the uni body and the other side is bolted with the same sandwich bracket. The three link is on the welded side.
20210411_155518.jpg
20210411_155511.jpg
 
Jody Treadway said:
Yup. I can admit when my lack of engineering and/or fab skills cause(d) an issue.
On my old MJ, I had built a typical crossmember out of 2x4x1/2" from rail to rail. Held in place with a boad load of fasteners. To get my upper link angle where I wanted, I built a tower vertically on top of the crossmember, welded and with a gusset coming off the rear of it. The gusset went from tower to crossmember. Make sense?
On a 8' near vertical drop at the Windrock ECORS race, I pogo'ed the front axle. The force pushed the link back and ripped the tower off the crossmember. Welds held fine. Just not adequate additional bracing.
It took out the shocks, tranny lines, bellhousing, exhaust, oil pan, pinion yoke literally went into the crank. Driveshaft was bent, etc.
I actually held the starter into the flywheel in order to drive it back to the trailer.
Was definitely a fiasco.
Click to expand...
To be fair no suspension is safe from damage with that sort of force. Unless it was tied into a full tube chassis where the upper link bracket is directly supported behind the joint. No?
 
Jody Treadway said:
Yup. I can admit when my lack of engineering and/or fab skills cause(d) an issue.
On my old MJ, I had built a typical crossmember out of 2x4x1/2" from rail to rail. Held in place with a boad load of fasteners. To get my upper link angle where I wanted, I built a tower vertically on top of the crossmember, welded and with a gusset coming off the rear of it. The gusset went from tower to crossmember. Make sense?
On a 8' near vertical drop at the Windrock ECORS race, I pogo'ed the front axle. The force pushed the link back and ripped the tower off the crossmember. Welds held fine. Just not adequate additional bracing.
It took out the shocks, tranny lines, bellhousing, exhaust, oil pan, pinion yoke literally went into the crank. Driveshaft was bent, etc.
I actually held the starter into the flywheel in order to drive it back to the trailer.
Was definitely a fiasco.
Click to expand...
To be fair to Jody's engineering and welding ability.
That incarnation of that rig had been beat on and beaten a lot of other rigs for a couple races at that point if memory serves.

It was also a section of "trail" most would think and crawl and Jody went darn near full send.
 
77GreenMachine said:
For every 3 link that failed, there’s 10X that amount that have never given an issue. Make good practice of checking the welds at all link mounts before/after a wheeling trip. 9/10 you’ll notice a cracked weld or frame starting to rip before it becomes a major failure with regular inspections.
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Hey John, how's the latest XJ build coming along . Cool new username :flipoff2:
 
Keith1138 said:
Should I be concerned with running this style bracket on a crossmember?

The cross member is bolted and welded on one side with brackets that sandwich the uni body and the other side is bolted with the same sandwich bracket. The three link is on the welded side. View attachment 344383View attachment 344384
Click to expand...
Here's how mine was built
IMG_20210422_181557204.jpg

Granted, as @Ron said, I beat the piss outta that rig and have a ton of (2nd place) trophies to show for it. If I was heart set on a crossmember mounted tower, it would be gusseted 6 ways to Sunday and frenched into the tube.
@NickMaul to answer your question, it did hold for 2 years of beatings just fine. That drop was sickening to go off of too. May e it was simply to be expected. Don't know.
I know the "fix" was plating the inner frame and welding on a typical frame link mount with a vertical heim. The MJ has been passed around more times than a jug at an Evarts wedding and the 3 link is holding up just fine.
Regardless, my knowledge at the time said the initial mount was fine. But knowing better now I prefer the way I permanently fabbed it.
 
Keith1138 said:
Should I be concerned with running this style bracket on a crossmember?

The cross member is bolted and welded on one side with brackets that sandwich the uni body and the other side is bolted with the same sandwich bracket. The three link is on the welded side. View attachment 344383View attachment 344384
Click to expand...
Support that with a massive chock like it owes you money. I plopped a 0.5 inch thick plate behind mine. I would be very surprised to see this fail unless I went full retard status.

5C300501-EBE4-4097-910B-8AC1BF17B2F1.jpeg
 
D2320M said:
@shawn on behalf of myself and several others in this thread I'd like to cordially invite you on a wheeling trip. What's your availability for May? Specifically, May 13-16? Location will be the Good Evening Ranch. We'd like to see all this knowledge in practical application.
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Thanks man, that's really kind of you to offer. We have four kids under the age of ten, so that's not really the sort of thing we do nowadays. I really appreciate the invite, though.
 
shawn said:
Thanks man, that's really kind of you to offer. We have four kids under the age of ten, so that's not really the sort of thing we do nowadays. I really appreciate the invite, though.
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Even better, the majority of us have kids the same age and they love getting to hang out and playing together. Honestly, they probably like getting out of the rigs and playing in the woods more than riding. Couldn't be more tailor-made.
 
NickMaul said:
Support that with a massive chock like it owes you money. I plopped a 0.5 inch thick plate behind mine. I would be very surprised to see this fail unless I went full retard status.

View attachment 344394
Click to expand...

from what I understand, the concern you should have is the upper link ripping the entire crossmember loose from the frame. There is a ton of forward and backward twisting forces that the upper link is trying to control, and your frame to crossmember junction appears smaller than your link-bracket to crossmember.
 
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rcalexander105 said:
Even better, the majority of us have kids the same age and they love getting to hang out and playing together. Honestly, they probably like getting out of the rigs and playing in the woods more than riding. Couldn't be more tailor-made.
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Yeah I fail to see the problem. The reason I bought the Jeep I just did was to include my family more. All of us have kids under 10 and mine would rather go on a wheeling trip than the beach, Disney or anything else. They love getting out in the woods and playing with the other kids more than anything else.
Sometimes I take just one kid so they get special time with dad, and sometimes I take both.
 
strange1 said:
from what I understand, the concern you should have is the upper link ripping the entire crossmember loose from the frame. There is a ton of forward and backward twisting forces that the upper link is trying to control, and your frame to crossmember junction appears smaller than your link-bracket to crossmember.
Click to expand...
It’s a pretty close comparison. I certainly have not finished that crossmember. The transmission crossmember will soon be tied into the rear 4 link crossmember with a skid plate system so really my failure point is the 5/8” diameter grade 8 fastener or the link bracket on the Dana 60 if I had to take a guess.
 
NickMaul said:
It’s a pretty close comparison. I certainly have not finished that crossmember. The transmission crossmember will SOON be tied into the rear 4 link crossmember with a skid plate system so really my failure point is the 5/8” diameter grade 8 fastener or the link bracket on the Dana 60 if I had to take a guess.
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So is that "soon" for a normal person or for you? Cause when I read soon, I think a couple days but I believe you mean a couple years?
 
rcalexander105 said:
Even better, the majority of us have kids the same age and they love getting to hang out and playing together. Honestly, they probably like getting out of the rigs and playing in the woods more than riding. Couldn't be more tailor-made.
Click to expand...
Our kids don't really like sitting in traffic behind a bunch of rigs with broken suspensions.... :flipoff2:

Seriously, though.... the wheeling we do nowadays is in small groups where we can stay on the move and do lots of things. Nothing in any of those pictures is suitable for a kid under the age of 2, either.
 
I'm so confused.
I'm riding around with my 19th century 2 link (leaf springs), knowing I can obliterate it all at the blip of the throttle but don't because heims and coilovers are expensive. o_O
 
NickMaul said:
Y’all have anything constructive to add? I bet Chris has a pile of dirt in his shop you guys can all sweep if you want to have fun :)
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His shop is pretty damn nasty considering all the rigs getting knocked out. By that standard, I bet you could eat off the floors in yours :flipoff2:

All jokes aside, I keep thinking there's a new thread... how many times is the damn title going to change?
 
Ive run a 3 link for a few years now , haven't had a issue yet. (next trip out ill probably have a catastrophic fail lol). From what Ive seen usually and assuming all builds are created equal . the bars and mounts on 3 links are bigger than that of the 4 links I've seen. because of the aforementioned space issue some rigs have
 
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