Insulation - new construction

Another vote for spray foam. We did the entire house. We also have all brick. Used bat in the garage. I belive it doubled our insulation cost. Heat and cool with 3 heat pumps 3500 sq ft plus 2300 basement stays 2 deg cooler than house year round. Most our bill has been is around 260 but average is around maybe 180. We set heat and ac at 69. To me that is fairly cheap for the size. I would pay up for it again if I had it to do over.
 
@kaiser715

A couple of ideas that I've had about building a house that feels... Substantial:

1. Stiffen your floors. Shorten the spans or go with deeper joists (or halve the spans and cut the member depth).
2. Buy solid core doors. If you don't want to spend the money to do all of them, start with the laundry, hall bath, master bedroom, guest room, etc.
 
It helps to stiffen floors if you reduce the distance between bridging blocks. I used 2x10 x16 @16" on center but I also ran two rows of diagonal 1x4 per span
 
All on one level maybe not quite as energy efficient as two story stacked...but does allow to make up for some of it in increased insulation overhead. Plus, around here 2 story means 2 heat pumps. (something like a 2 and a 2.5 ton vs. a 4 ton)...more $ up front, maintenance, eventual replacement, etc...

Single story that big and shape also means that if you have a single heat pump, the distribution had better be really well planned or it's not going to have even pressure/temp everywhere (lot of potential duct length loss). Just something to consider.
 
@farmboy

People keep recommending spray in the attic, so I'll keep stating that it's not recommended in our climate due to dew point issues.

Could you expound a little?
 
Single story that big and shape also means that if you have a single heat pump, the distribution had better be really well planned or it's not going to have even pressure/temp everywhere (lot of potential duct length loss). Just something to consider.

Thanks....hadn't really thought about it that way. Going to talk with my HVAC guy this week and get some input.
 
@kaiser715

A couple of ideas that I've had about building a house that feels... Substantial:

1. Stiffen your floors. Shorten the spans or go with deeper joists (or halve the spans and cut the member depth).

You're skipping the other part which should go along with that (or can often be done instead), which is to increase the subfloor thickness and/or use the best available stiffness for a given thickness, like using Advantech instead of OSB or plywood. Increasing the span/joist stiffness and increasing the subfloor diaphragm stiffness are two different things, but compliment each other very well. I wish my house had 1" or 1 1/8" Advantech, it would make everything feel nicer. I'm doing that in the master bathroom during the subfloor replacement (mostly for proper tile installation stiffness) but it's too much work to do anywhere else.
 
It's worse as a firefighter lol.

Duane
IMG_20150821_172120138.jpg
 
You're skipping the other part which should go along with that (or can often be done instead), which is to increase the subfloor thickness and/or use the best available stiffness for a given thickness, like using Advantech instead of OSB or plywood. Increasing the span/joist stiffness and increasing the subfloor diaphragm stiffness are two different things, but compliment each other very well. I wish my house had 1" or 1 1/8" Advantech, it would make everything feel nicer. I'm doing that in the master bathroom during the subfloor replacement (mostly for proper tile installation stiffness) but it's too much work to do anywhere else.

Different solutions to different problems. My floors are 1-1/2" thick o/a. I still had to add three girders and a couple of lolly columns. And could probably use a few more.
 
Realized that this thread got left hanging (as did my whole house-building project) when I poked my eye out in August 2015.

We are back on track, almost have land deal squared away, and hope to start building sometime this spring or summer. Turned my almost-complete plans over to a draftsman for final tweaking, and just got them back (save for a few corrections). House is ending up 3001 square feet, single story (it grew a little, but it's space we need/want). Exterior will be all brick. This is our "grow old" house, so that's why single story, and low maintenance.

Right now, I am leaning towards 2x4 walls under the brick veneer, with rigid foam insulation over the air barrier.

I'd do continuous insulation in the air space before I did 2x6 studs. Increase the air space and do an inch or two of rigid over the air barrier.

Foil barriers and foil faced sheathing make me nervous. They act as a vapor barrier and a condensation plane. Really easy to cause yourself all sorts of issues.

In our climate, you do not want to have any vapor barriers in the wall or roof/ceiling assemblies. INCLUDING KRAFT PAPER!! Your batt insulation should all be unfaced. The air barrier should be installed outboard of the insulation and should be vapor permeable.

Do these two statements conflict? (Of course not...I just don't understand) But how permeable is the rigid foam?


The company i work for just picked up a new product line (XCI Ply) that is poly iso laminated to sheathing (of your choice). Pretty much any thickness you want and rougly $2.5 a sqft. You can even get sheathing on both sides if need be.

@farmboy How do you feel about the XCI Ply product 1.5 years down the road??

@kaiser715

A couple of ideas that I've had about building a house that feels... Substantial:

1. Stiffen your floors. Shorten the spans or go with deeper joists (or halve the spans and cut the member depth).
2. Buy solid core doors. If you don't want to spend the money to do all of them, start with the laundry, hall bath, master bedroom, guest room, etc.

Like both of these. Most floor joist spans are around 8'8" to 10' even. One section, for about 16' wide, is 11' span (to get supports for bearing wall in right spot) but it's under 2 walk-in closets.

Anyone have an opinion on using the BIBS insulation system in the walls (Blow In Blanket System)???
 
We just completed a 2200ft² single story over basement house last year. Our thought process was very similar to yours (grow-old-in-it potential, energy efficient, simple) so feel free to PM if I can help with more specifics. Some quick notes based on some of your questions thus far:

1) BIBS is what we chose for wall cavity insulation. I was very impressed with that system and especially the noise dampening. Fills in behind outlets, switches and dryer boxes perfectly, which is something batts will never be able to do. My advice: avoid batts all together if you can. It's too hard to find someone who can do a proper installation even though it seems so simple. They must be cut perfectly without compression. Tricky to do well. Spray foam in wall cavities is just not cost effective. And blow that fluffy stuff in thick in your attic and use raised heel trusses.

2) We went with 2x6 exterior walls for the added rigidity, extra R value and deeper window openings, which look better and accommodate blinds easier. For sheathing we went with Zip-R in the 1" overall thickness, which is a half-inch of Zip panel + half-inch of foam board bonded to it. So you get R-3, which isn't much but it's in the most effective location where it can eliminate the thermal bridges at the studs and other framing members. The foam is on the inside so you still have an easy nail base so your siding contractors won't have a fit. At 1" overall it was easy to order windows with correct jamb extensions so custom work on site was not an issue. And the taped seams of the Zip system provide excellent air sealing. We also used Zip panels on the roof, but without the added foam board.

3) Do you have the slope to do a walk-out basement rather than a crawl space? If not, then an encapsulated crawl space is definitely the only way to go. Might even need a dehumidifier down there. Just priced encapsulation of an existing crawl for a family member and 5-6k is the reasonable range to get it done right. Good read here: Building an Unvented Crawl Space BTW, that is a great site with good info on all the considerations you've mentioned. I read that site, and elsewhere, for nearly 5 years before we started our project.

4) Our house was built to Energy Star v3.0 and Indoor Air Plus standards, which I would highly recommend looking into. Having an energy rater as a 3rd party, extra set of eyes is a huge advantage and with energy modelling software you can evaluate different options and how they will affect your overall energy usage. A blower door test should be standard for all new homes. Just remember that a house built to Building Code standards is not some lofty goal. It is simply the worst house you can legally build without facing fines or jail time. So you're definitely on the right path in trying to exceed Code minimums.

Also, make sure your HVAC guy is capable of doing proper load calculations. The last thing you want is a rule of thumb sized heat pump. He should also be able to layout your ductwork in the most efficient way, which will allow you to order trusses with duct chases (square openings) for the main distribution ducts.

5) For the universal design bit: door openings of 36", no-step entry at least from the garage into house, 48" hallways, lever door handles, rocker switches, curbless shower and outlets 18" off floor. Those are some of things we made sure to do. Will add more if I can think of them. But the most important aspect is energy efficiency. You spend more upfront to ensure that the home is cheap to operate over the long haul. That's what you will appreciate most when you hit retirement and your income is more limited.

6) Insulation is important, but I can't stress the benefits of air sealing enough. "Build it tight, ventilate right." Mechanical ventilation using an HRV/ERV, with your HVAC guy designing that distribution network too, because after all, that is what the V stands for. We used a Venmar ECM ERV, which are now badged as Broan. We have it running 90% of the time, either bringing in fresh air or on recirc, and it only draws the equivalent of 2 cfl bulbs. Basically no energy penalty in exchange for a huge bump in indoor air quality.

Hope that helps.
 
Might even need a dehumidifier down there.

This is a requirement, not an option. :beer:

Just remember that a house built to Building Code standards is not some lofty goal. It is simply the worst house you can legally build without facing fines or jail time. So you're definitely on the right path in trying to exceed Code minimums.

Meh... the question is whether or not there's a measurable return on the upgrades. When you iterate through energy model options, you often find that - for example - changing the R-value of the walls doesn't generate a measurable difference in the efficiency of the building. 2012 NCBC allows for both the prescriptive and performance-based methods of complying with the energy code. We often find that we can go with the performance method, do the energy study, and provide less insulation than would be required in the performance spec, but still end up with a more efficient building than code.
 
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1) BIBS is what we chose for wall cavity insulation. I was very impressed with that system and especially the noise dampening. Fills in behind outlets, switches and dryer boxes perfectly, which is something batts will never be able to do. My advice: avoid batts all together if you can. It's too hard to find someone who can do a proper installation even though it seems so simple. They must be cut perfectly without compression. Tricky to do well. Spray foam in wall cavities is just not cost effective. And blow that fluffy stuff in thick in your attic and use raised heel trusses.

2) We went with 2x6 exterior walls for the added rigidity, extra R value and deeper window openings, which look better and accommodate blinds easier. For sheathing we went with Zip-R in the 1" overall thickness, which is a half-inch of Zip panel + half-inch of foam board bonded to it. So you get R-3, which isn't much but it's in the most effective location where it can eliminate the thermal bridges at the studs and other framing members. The foam is on the inside so you still have an easy nail base so your siding contractors won't have a fit. At 1" overall it was easy to order windows with correct jamb extensions so custom work on site was not an issue. And the taped seams of the Zip system provide excellent air sealing. We also used Zip panels on the roof, but without the added foam board.

I've been reading up on the BIBS recently. Sounds great.

Lee County seems to be about a generation behind, as far as the builders go. Even the younger ones. "We do it this way, because we've always done it this way" is their mantra. Met with our probable builder of choice today, he'd never heard of BIBS...but I gave him some info, along with some regional insulation contractors that do it. He's going to look at it.

Good point about the 2x6 windows sills just plain looking better. We are 2x6 now (with vinyl siding)...and have quite a few things sitting on the window sills. Makes a nice little shelf.

3) Do you have the slope to do a walk-out basement rather than a crawl space? If not, then an encapsulated crawl space is definitely the only way to go. Might even need a dehumidifier down there. Just priced encapsulation of an existing crawl for a family member and 5-6k is the reasonable range to get it done right. Good read here: Building an Unvented Crawl Space BTW, that is a great site with good info on all the considerations you've mentioned. I read that site, and elsewhere, for nearly 5 years before we started our project.

We went out last Sunday to work on exactly where to site the house. It looks like over 66' on the length of the main house, we lose about 6'...so if 2' crawl on uphill side, we have 8' on downhill. Really don't need or want the space of a basement, and we really want to stay with one level (no stairs). But may do a half-basement, since hardly any digging, and half the walls are there. It would just be a large storage and utilities area... Contractor is going to run some numbers on the options.

4) Our house was built to Energy Star v3.0 and Indoor Air Plus standards, which I would highly recommend looking into. Having an energy rater as a 3rd party, extra set of eyes is a huge advantage and with energy modelling software you can evaluate different options and how they will affect your overall energy usage. A blower door test should be standard for all new homes. Just remember that a house built to Building Code standards is not some lofty goal. It is simply the worst house you can legally build without facing fines or jail time. So you're definitely on the right path in trying to exceed Code minimums.

Also, make sure your HVAC guy is capable of doing proper load calculations. The last thing you want is a rule of thumb sized heat pump. He should also be able to layout your ductwork in the most efficient way, which will allow you to order trusses with duct chases (square openings) for the main distribution ducts.

5) For the universal design bit: door openings of 36", no-step entry at least from the garage into house, 48" hallways, lever door handles, rocker switches, curbless shower and outlets 18" off floor. Those are some of things we made sure to do. Will add more if I can think of them. But the most important aspect is energy efficiency. You spend more upfront to ensure that the home is cheap to operate over the long haul. That's what you will appreciate most when you hit retirement and your income is more limited.

We hit all those, except the outlets...I like that.


6) Insulation is important, but I can't stress the benefits of air sealing enough. "Build it tight, ventilate right." Mechanical ventilation using an HRV/ERV, with your HVAC guy designing that distribution network too, because after all, that is what the V stands for. We used a Venmar ECM ERV, which are now badged as Broan. We have it running 90% of the time, either bringing in fresh air or on recirc, and it only draws the equivalent of 2 cfl bulbs. Basically no energy penalty in exchange for a huge bump in indoor air quality.

Hope that helps.


Thanks for the advice!
 
I've been reading up on the BIBS recently. Sounds great.

BIBS is just a brand name. You can get loose fill fiberglass from anywhere. Just make sure the interior barrier is vapor- and air-permeable.
 
The cost of 12 mil and thicker vapor Barriers is hard to justify in low traffic crawlspaces.

A 6 mil vapor barrier with proper overlap is sufficient, and we have 17 years of data to back that up.

That said, 12 mil and thicker vapor barriers are great for high traffic crawlspaces on larger/taller houses.

Cost wise, 6 mil vapor barriers should be 2x-4x cheaper than 12 mil and thicker stuff.

In terms of indoor air quality, there is no scenario where mixing crawlspace air, and house air is beneficial.

We use dehumidifiers in crawlspaces to control moisture levels as it is a separate price of equipment with a much smaller compressor and energy cost, to serve a very specific purpose.

There is zero return on the investment of insulating the crawlspace walls.

On identical houses, the crawlspace temperature difference between 3 houses with closed crawlspaces was less than 2 degrees.

One house had fiberglass in the floor, converted to closed from a vented, one had 2" polyiso board on the walls, and the third had spray foam. It's a great idea, but honestly do what costs the least.

Once the crawlspace is closed and air sealed, and the air is dry, the temperature will mirror the 1st floor temp due to the loss through the duct work, and the entire crawlspace air mass will act as insulation.

Anywho, feel free to call/text/pm me with any crawlspace questions. I'll be glad to help any way I can.
 
Glad I could help. Building a house is a monster undertaking, especially if you're hoping to do it only once.

You had also mentioned a wood stove. We have one as well and with a relatively tight envelope you want to make sure to account for an outdoor air supply duct that feeds cold combustion air directly into the firebox. It will just need to be lower than the level of the stove. Ours is a 3-4" round metal duct that enters the floor under the hearth and follows the truss cavity to an outdoor grill plate. Also good to make sure your flue pipe can be straight and exit near the roof peak.

Here's a picture of our BIBS installation, just for reference.

P1030626.JPG
 
The only concern, I have with the Bibs/lf fiberglass insulation, and its a minor one to be sure, is if you ever have to or need to retro anything in the wall cavity you are going to wreak havoc on it.

Along this same line...Add a couple cheap emtpy conduit chase runs near any where you expect A/V technology equipment to be. Its literally dollars now, and maybe mandatory in the future to keep pace with technology of the day. I know wireless is everything these days, but there will seemingly always be a need for wiring.
 
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