Chosing a welder

Croatan_Kid

Croatan_Kid

How's your hammer hangin'?
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Location
New Bern
I've been kicking around the idea of a new welder. I need a bigger, 220v welder and I plan to buy one some time soon. At first, I was just looking at something like a Lincoln 180C, but I figured if I was going to spend some money....I might as well SPEND some money. So I stepped up to looking at the Lincoln 256 or Miller 252.

I'm partial to the Lincoln welders because I already have one, but I know my local welding supply store will cut me a better deal on a Miller. With that being said, I've read about a lot of issues with the Miller guns, tips/nozzles, liners, and some burn back issues that lead to melting the wire to the tip. I also read the Miller uses a Miller specific set of consumables that are more expensive. If that's not true, by all means, let me know. Otherwise, it's just as impressive as the Lincoln. They're really neck and neck as far as specs and performance. I just don't want to buy a brand new machine and hate the gun and have to buy another one.

Also, my reason for these two brands is local support and service. The place I would more than likely buy from is the same company we deal with at work, they'll look out for me, and even bring things to me at work. I know they'll be more likely to push a Miller on me and will give me a far better price on one, but I just prefer Lincolns for my home shop use.

Having said all that, I know a lot of you guys weld far more than I do and probably have some hard facts for me to consider. You may even have a similar (or the same) machine and that would be all the better! So, let me hear it!
 
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Esab caddy mig 200. 200amps, 220v, 27 lbs, you can run aluminum, stainless, flux, silbro, and hardwire through it. Easy to setup controls, and the machine reads arc voltage to keep output current the same even when changing position or stickout.

Extremely capable machine for less Than $1k.

I have owned several millers and still own a few and will never buy another new miller. If I buy another new machine it will be this esab or a Lincoln.

As far as a used older miller 212 non auto set or millermatic 185, I would buy one of those on the spot.

We run miller 252s at school with tregaskiss guns and have to replace the liners and trigger switches once a year. Hold up pretty good but those guns are super heavy. Those machines don't weld that smooth and wire speed fluctuates while machine is running.
Not a big deal and most people don't notice but when you put in a lot of shield time it's easy to notice.
 
I second the miller comments. I dont know what they are up too but the newer stuff is junk compared to the few yrs ago equipment for straight forward GMAW steel. Also very pricey to fix since major repair work almost every time is the control board in the machines.
 
I don't own any Millers and wouldn't buy one. I've always been happy with Lincoln and esab. But, bang for the buck I've really liked my Hobart. It's a 187 so it's a little bit of a step down from what you were looking at but I've been impressed with it for home shop work.
 
rockcity said:
I don't own any Millers and wouldn't buy one. But, bang for the buck I've really liked my Hobart. It's a 187 so it's a little bit of a step down from what you were looking at but I've been impressed with it for home shop work.
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You know that's a Miller, right? You saved $100 by not getting the blue paint.
 
My buddy suggested the Hobart too, but I want infinite controls. Plus, if you check out the Miller 252 and Lincoln 256, they can both put out up to 300 amps. 250 amps at 30% duty cycle.

I'm still feeling good about wanting to stick with the Lincoln. I'm going to look at the Esabs though, just to see if they offer something I like.

I'm certainly looking at this as a very long term investment. Do I really want to drop 2000 bucks on a welder? Ehh, not really. However, if it's the last one I ever have to buy, it'll be worth it. Plus, there's not much I can't tackle with 300 amps on tap. If I need more, I can take it to work and hit it with the 450s they use.
 
I've enjoyed the ESAB c200i caddy mig I got a while back based on Mac's and other reviews on the web. Not the last welder I'll buy kind of purchase, but it will do any fab I need in my current 2 car garage shop and more.
 
There is no need for 250 amps at a home hobby shop and I'll explain why:

For most of the things you will weld, the thickest of which is most likely an axle tube which is 3/8-1/2 thick, and you will most likely be welding a 3/16-3/8 thick bracket to it.

On 3/8 thick plate with a groove, welding 3 passes at 105 -115 amps will pass a destructive bend test f welded correctly. In many cases raising the amperage over this results in poor fusion at the base of the weld with .035" wire size because the deposition rate is too high for that wire size. The weld grows outward, opposite of "burning it in"

To take advantage of 250 amps on what's commonly welded you would either need to step to larger wire or go to dual shield wire (ie: flux core with gas).

The only reason to get a higher amp machine is to increase duty cycle at the common amperage range. Meaning a 200 amp machine is most likely 80-100% duty cycle at 125 amps.

If you aren't welding with it day in and day out, and are just using it as a home hobby setting, you are paying for more machine than you will ever use.

Typically with the fab work that comes up, the highest duty cycles are on finish welding a chassis or cage, or finish welding an axle truss system. All of those will fair better spacing out your welds and taking a moment to relocate and spread your welds out on the entire assembly.

My point to all this, why are you shopping for a 250 amp machine that costs more that what you need or will use?

Of course if you plan to weld all day with it, keep on keepin on.
 
Mac5005 said:
There is no need for 250 amps at a home hobby shop and I'll explain why:

For most of the things you will weld, the thickest of which is most likely an axle tube which is 3/8-1/2 thick, and you will most likely be welding a 3/16-3/8 thick bracket to it.

On 3/8 thick plate with a groove, welding 3 passes at 105 -115 amps will pass a destructive bend test f welded correctly. In many cases raising the amperage over this results in poor fusion at the base of the weld with .035" wire size because the deposition rate is too high for that wire size. The weld grows outward, opposite of "burning it in"

To take advantage of 250 amps on what's commonly welded you would either need to step to larger wire or go to dual shield wire (ie: flux core with gas).

The only reason to get a higher amp machine is to increase duty cycle at the common amperage range. Meaning a 200 amp machine is most likely 80-100% duty cycle at 125 amps.

If you aren't welding with it day in and day out, and are just using it as a home hobby setting, you are paying for more machine than you will ever use.

Typically with the fab work that comes up, the highest duty cycles are on finish welding a chassis or cage, or finish welding an axle truss system. All of those will fair better spacing out your welds and taking a moment to relocate and spread your welds out on the entire assembly.

My point to all this, why are you shopping for a 250 amp machine that costs more that what you need or will use?

Of course if you plan to weld all day with it, keep on keepin on.
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I was thinking just the same thing but just not quite as technical. :D


I think a 250 machine at a home shop is way overkill. I've welded for a living for years and I don't even have one at the house. Well, I do have a Lincoln buzz box for any big jobs that may need some of the big 7018 rods burned in.

A 175 is more than enough for a home shop.
 
I bought the Hobart 187 many moons ago because everyone on Pirate4x4 says its the shit. Im one of millions that have to agree.
 
I'm running a hobart 190, I've put maybe 20 lbs of wire through it, no complaints what so ever. Burns hot as hell, but that's because my outlet is 20 feet from the panel an 10/2 wire. Used it at a buddys house doing the whole dryer outlet deal and it ran no where near as hot
 
XJsavage said:
I bought the Hobart 187 many moons ago because everyone on Pirate4x4 says its the shit. Im one of millions that have to agree.
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I bought the Hobart 175 about 5 moons before the 187 existed, and its still going strong.
 
jeepinmatt said:
I bought the Hobart 175 about 5 moons before the 187 existed, and its still going strong.
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A realistic count of moons is probably 7 for me. Got it on sale at tsc for around $500. I've built 5 rigs, went through several hundred lbs of .035 flux core. Haven't had gas on it once lol.
 
XJsavage said:
A realistic count of moons is probably 7 for me. Got it on sale at tsc for around $500. I've built 5 rigs, went through several hundred lbs of .035 flux core. Haven't had gas on it once lol.
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Thats how I picked mine up, $650 shipped to my door from tractor supply, free shipping and tax free. The regulator they give you aint to fancy but it works.
 
Also ask local supplier like machine and welding, airgas, praxair etc for their recent inventory lists. These will include demo models and older new floor models that they will usually sell for a discount in order to get new models in store. The lists will be for the district but driving 2 hours or so to get something at a seriously reduced cash price may be worth it.
 
Just throwing this out there. I know you want one of the big three welders, but if you decide to keep a lot of cash in your pocket, don't be afraid to look at the Eastwood 175. Yeah, it's Chinese, but support is located in the states. I've been playing with a 135 at the shop, and it's been nothing short of amazing. For a $300 welder, it's got a Tweco style gun, infinite controls, and burns .023 like a beaut. It has a sweet arc and is easy to dial in. Yeah, there's some plastic inside it, but I'm going to try not to drop it on the floor and stuff, so it'll probably be OK. ;)

My point is, I agree with some of the others that you're in overkill territory. I've burned into 1" steel with a Millermatic 210. If you need more than that, I'd love to see what you're doing! ;) If you want to lower your budget, I'd seriously consider an Eastwood. $500 for a 200A max 220v welder WITH a spool gun. I haven't used one yet, but it reviews well, and if it holds up as well as my 135 has to our abuse, it's a solid unit. And for $900, they sell an inverter 250A machine! It's getting good reviews, but I don't know how it's going to hold up long-term. As for the "last welder you'll ever buy" mentality, I'm afraid you might have to throw that out the window. Even the Big Three are putting out cheaper and cheaper quality welders. Miller's having some serious issues with their high-end welders these days, and that's a damn shame. I've never cared for Linc's support after the sale, and the Esab I used did not impress me, nor did the repair facility I had to send it to. None of them seem made to last anymore, and to me, that makes the Chinese competitors look that much more appealing.

If it was me buying a new welder for the shop, I would seriously consider a Chinese unit. If I was in a production environment and depended on quick availability of parts and service centers, then I'd go Miller. And if I was hell-bent on spending some real money, I'd go big and get something that's pulse-mode capable. There's just nothing else like it.
 
Well, perhaps I'll drop back to the 180C. I know it's plenty for anything I'll need at home. If I need more, like I said, I'll take it to work. They weld at a 300 amp output. I learned very quickly that exposed skin will get a tan, quick!

I'm too particular about certain things to get an el-cheapo. I know they may perform the same, but I like Lincolns, so I'll stick to that.

Going to go play hard ball with Machine & Welding and see what they can do for me. Thanks for all the feedback guys!
 
Honestly If I were buying a new welder, my choices would be as follows:

Esab caddy mig 200
Everlast or longevity 220v machine
Lincoln
Miller/Hobart.

Everlast and longevity, giant, Eastwood etc are all made by the same manufacturer in china. They have 5 year warranties and I have personally welded with and will vouch for both everlast and longevity. Go with the company with best price and nicest sales/support staff. The machines and inverters are all the same.

It's hard to be longer warranty for sometimes 1/5 the price of a top brand machine.

If I welded 40 hrs a week my choice would be different, but for a home hobby setting where bang for buck is maximum importance these are better suited.

If I were running the squirt gun full time, I would say Lincoln power mig 255, or miller delta weld 450 with separate wire feeder. These two have 100% duty cycles and have better parts to take the abuse of running every day all day.

Used welder choices would be

Millermatic 185
Lincoln 180
Miller/Hobart 212/187 non auto set

Also, newer miller and Lincoln inverters have a 10 year design life span. Not the life expectancy of an old transformer machine. To get life expectancy with an inverter similar to that of a transformer, get a machine with a German made inverter.

New machines are not the same as their previous models.

Although it has been discussed before some brands get preferential service at the repair facility, and a lot of the cost of that is packed into the machine cost up front.

If you rely on your machine for income, this is a necessity. If it's for weekend use and in a home hobby setting, may not be worth it.
 
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I'd be all over a used Lincoln 180C! Saw a used Miller, but the guy was asking 100 bucks less than new.
 
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