Ring Pinion - Carrier bearing preload

rbo1577186

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Location
Winston Salem
I'm re-gearing my TJ and I have a prob..... I can't get the carrier back in anywhere near as tight as it was when I took it out. I made my backlash adjustments with the carrier assembly snug, no play at all. I could still get it in and out by hand. I added .010 more in shims and lightly tapped it in with a dead blow hammer. Is this O.K.???
 
Do you have any kind of feeler gauges or gear marking compound? Did you put new bearings in it? I hope you did.....

You need to get the tolerances for what you're doing. don't just throw shims at it.

without any of these tools or experience, the gears will pretty much eat themselves up in no time.
 
rbo1577186 said:
I'm re-gearing my TJ and I have a prob..... I can't get the carrier back in anywhere near as tight as it was when I took it out. I made my backlash adjustments with the carrier assembly snug, no play at all. I could still get it in and out by hand. I added .010 more in shims and lightly tapped it in with a dead blow hammer. Is this O.K.???


What tools do you have to do this job?
Sounds like you might need some help.
 
Gofer said:
What tools do you have to do this job?
Sounds like you might need some help.

X2......What do you have to do the job and have you ever done a gear install before?


Andy
 
No, never done a gear change. A guy I work with does race cars and he told me it was no big deal, just pay attention to what you're doing ( I also went by the instructions that came with my kit a others websites) .I have done some work in a machine shop, so I'm not totally ignorant to this. I bought new R + P's from Yukon gear with master intall kits. (new bearings, gear marking compound, the whole shebang) My gear pattern is good, (almost perfect), backlash is in spec (.007), pinion bearing preload is O.K. I could not get a .002 feeler gage between any shims/ housing. It just feels much less snug than the factory assembly. It was tight as hell. I do not have a stretcher. I have only drove it 12 miles since the install (still working on the front as I get time). I could not push the carrier assembly in by hand, but only had to lightly tap it in with a 2 lb dead blow hammer. No play at all before installing the carrier bearing caps. I'm just trying to get some input from someone who has more hands on expirence. Thank you for any input..

rbo
 
hmm i would be careful what advice you take from a racer, they do things a lot different... Taking my dirt race car brother, he runs ohh say high 5s and low 6s gears in his 9" and runs it very loose to acount for the heat generated. He also has the chunk out all the time swaping in different ratios etc.. Ive had plenty of discussions on gear setup with him :D
 
You often hear people say, I set it ( the backlash) up extra tight so it won't open up under load.

Bad misconception.
Back lash is spec'd as it is for a reason.

What you really want "extra tight" is the endplay or carrier preload.
In most Dana rears, that preload is supposed to be "minus" 10-15 thousands.

IOW - ZERO endplay, then 10-15 thousands preload. (more shims)
In order to get that, it is recommended to use a case spreader. So the assy will JUST go in snug with the case spread about 15 thousands.

I have a case spreader, but to be honest, I don't use it all the time.
Mostly when installing ARBs and rears like D35s with the shims on the outside of the bearings.
Once you get the feel for it, .0010 preload is just about what you can force in....
...On the bench. With the carrier dead square going in.

Laying on your back pressing the carrier up into the housing you aren't going to get that much force. And a 2 lb deadblow won't do it either. I have about a 5 lb plastic face DB. And feel like it is just barely enough on the bench.

One more thing to keep in mind. When you pulled it out. It was with used - broken in - bearings. That is even looser than it should be with new bearings.

So you REALLY should be going in TIGHTER than it came out.

Do you still feel like it is "good enough" ?

You are gambling on $300 worth of parts, (Plus locker if any) and maybe a nasty situation when it breaks going down the highway.

Do you still feel like it is "good enough" ?


Not saying you can't do it yourself, but from your description, I don't think you are quite there.

And I have to agree with Yager. Race cars are set up differently than 4x4s or street cars. They only have to last a few miles between teardowns. And they don't use reverse too much.
;)
 
Thanks fellows,

How about this.... I got the front carrier in about a third of the way... then used the bearing caps to finish pushing them in..... this is tighter than when I first got the front carrier out. The racer told me they use looser tolerances for those reasons. I just went by Yukons specs for everything. About how much does a case spreader cost? As for the rear I'm going to drive it about 50 miles or so and pull the cover off and inspect everything. If it needs to be tighter I'll try what I did with the front carrier. If this is not a good idea someone SPEAK UP! Once again, thanks everyone.
 
You can draw it in that way.
But it is hard on the caps and difficult to really feel how tight you are getting it.

Just be very careful and draw it down in SMALL incriments very evenly.
A

Little

at

a

time...

on each bolt

tapping the carrier as you go will help make sure it doesn't bind.

Oh, a housing spreader runs anywhere from $100 - 300+
With $200 - 250 being about average.
Depending on when where you get it.

http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=980
 
or make your own spreader, i dont use it much but it does come in handy...
 

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Thanks people, I took it easy using the bearing caps. About a 1/2 turn on each bold until it snugged up. ( and using the hammer ) The bolts weren't even hard to turn until it snugged up. ( Using a small 1/2 rachet ) Thank you everyone for your input.


Does anyone know an good way to get the carrier bearing off on the ring gear side?? I got one off with a gear puller no prob. Then I ruined one yesterday using the same method, or as I tighten the puller it leans over to the side. ( a 2 jaw puller )
 
rbo1577186 said:
Does anyone know an good way to get the carrier bearing off on the ring gear side?? I got one off with a gear puller no prob. Then I ruined one yesterday using the same method, or as I tighten the puller it leans over to the side. ( a 2 jaw puller )

ClamShell and a draw puller.

Or CAREFULLY cut it off.

The problem is that on D44 & D30 the shims go between the carrier and the bearing. You will have it off several times to get it set-up. So you will need the corrrect puller. Unless you have set-up bearings.
 
Yeah, I made some set up bearings out of my old bearings. I used a die grinder to ream the bore out until it was a snug-slip fit. Thanks again everyone. I appreciate everyone's input to a FNG.
 
Thanks again everyone, I took your advice and tightened up the rear carrier by another .004, but that's all I can get. I also bought a bearing puller from randy's ring and pinion. That tool is the real deal. It was steep at $350 but it saves the bearings. I'm going to rent it out to a couple of buddies to help cover the cost. It's worth it for not ruining the bearings.
 
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