Honest loggers/Timber buyers?

hunterdan

hunterdan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Location
Morganton,NC
I have some property in Burke county. WE need to have some logged for a homesite, garage site, food plot, power line right of way and a perimeter road.

At the home and garage sight are some large white pines. Some are 4-5" across and are said to be 150 +YRS old. I've had a couple loggers look and they seem very interested in betting these trees. Both mentioned that the larger ones could have red heart...

For anyone interested

250'x250' area for home (LG. white pine)
250'x250' area for garage (LG. white pine)
1000' x 25' swath next to road for power route. LG. white pine and some white oak/hardwood)
1/2-3/4 acre of white and yellow pine mix ( trees are tall straight telephone pole size)
2000+/- feet of perimeter road about 10-12' wide
Some nice pickers to select cut from perimeter rd.

If anyone knows someone who is honest/fair in the timber business please let me know. Also, would I be better getting paid up front or splitting with the logger load by load?
 
Find a good forestry/timber management guy first. Then get bids.

Edit, fixed, meant to say then, not they...

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A forestry/timber manager AKA consultant is also going to get a percentage. That percentage will likely be more than any extra they get you. Try to find you an honest timber buyer or perhaps a logger that has enough bank role to buy his own timber. I suggest not selling by ton unless your gonna watch every load leave and follow to yard and get scale ticket. Lots of people have been F'd this way by dishonest loggers. It may be a little hard to get very many people interested because of amount of acres/wood involved. Lots of expenses involved with moving a crew. Also you can take bids yourself. You can send letters to available timber buyers/company's in your area and set a sale date. On that date at set time you would open all sealed bids at that time. Consultants do this regular. Or you could get a few bids in writing from different buyers. Make sure whoever comes on your land has workers comp!!!!!!. Also you may want to keep in mind how they are going to treat your land and property.
 
Junkyard Dog said:
Also you may want to keep in mind how they are going to treat your land and property.
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Yeah unless you have in it writing that they need to clean up they will leave a big mess.
 
1-tonmudder said:
Yeah unless you have in it writing that they need to clean up they will leave a big mess.
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Even then, they probably will. The view from my front yard went from a lovely wooded hillside to looking like the aftermath of a hurricane when the loggers got done taking what they wanted. They had contracted with the Church that owns the land and were supposed to clean up after. Good luck getting them to come back after they've gotten theirs.
 
1-tonmudder said:
Yeah unless you have in it writing that they need to clean up they will leave a big mess.
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X2. Also are you wanting the property cleared or just the lumber cut off? Unless you are just having them cut the lumber they want and leave everything else, you won't be bringing in a ton of money.

Call your local saw mill and talk to them, they might tell you who they buy from or even going rates.
 
Thanks for the info and ideas. I got a call from one of the loggers a minute ago. He said that he would pay 70$ a thousand board feet on white pine timber. For pulp and pole timber he offered 35$ a load. He claimed that moving in his equipment and crew would be costly.
There is a section that will need to be widened from 6' to 12-14'. That section is about 150' long. The logger also mentioned having to bring in stone for his trucks to get through some damp areas...

I dunno? He wants me to sign a contract tomorrow which is quick.
His final comment was I would get a road and approx. 2500.00 for the timber.
 
hunterdan said:
Thanks for the info and ideas. I got a call from one of the loggers a minute ago. He said that he would pay 70$ a thousand board feet on white pine timber. For pulp and pole timber he offered 35$ a load. He claimed that moving in his equipment and crew would be costly.
There is a section that will need to be widened from 6' to 12-14'. That section is about 150' long. The logger also mentioned having to bring in stone for his trucks to get through some damp areas...

I dunno? He wants me to sign a contract tomorrow which is quick.
His final comment was I would get a road and approx. 2500.00 for the timber.
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Whats about the stumps?? You gonna have a road filled w stumps???
 
The road would be clear of stumps for the trucks. The homesite/garage and food plot areas would still have the stumps and I imagine some branches/wreckage. I was thinking about having them leave 2-3' stumps so it will be easier clearing them for a large bon fire.
 
Does he have workers comp? And expecting loggers to clean up is like expecting $100 bills to fall out the sky. They are "loggers" and there for the logs not the tops, limbs or stumps. Ask to be shown a similar job or given the location so you can go view. Some do better than others. The size or amount of wood involved is the problem. You need a small logger with worker comp which is hard for them to afford because of the amount of wood involved. If he is trying to get you to sign something ASAP it's cause he probably don't won't you shopping around. He shouldn't be trying to make it fill like he's helping you, you are supplying him a job. The road and rock is part of his overhead. You do need in writing that the land will be left in "as good or better shape than found". I wish you were closer I would put you in contact with my dad, he has been a timber buyer for 40 plus years.
 
And also an offer of xxx/per board foot is OK but he should be offering a lump sum price. That's how you should get paid for it. It puts are interested buyers against each other which equals the highest pay for you. Now you may decide to go with Joe blow because you liked the look of his work verus other people and he came within $200 of anyone else.buyers should be doing a tree count or at least some kinda cruise on that small of a job and making you an offer or the sealed bid route.
 
No logger in there right mind is going to give you a hard lump sum number there is to many variables with old growth like that. Every large tree could be basically worthless if it has rot or beetles in it. Loggers get payed by the board foot for saw lumber. Chip wood by the ton. I wouldn't expect him to offer you any other way unless hes lump sum is dirt cheap.
 
If he can't look at it and tell if it has beetles or root rot I wouldn't want him on my property...

BTW NC forestry commission says forester bid tracts demand 30% more for their owners. The last time I looked like, most were asking 2-7%. Oh and the forester will make sure BMPshe are followed and roads are installed right...the last thing you want is a run off fight over an improper road install.

All that said, you have a marginally commercially viable cut. Find a small guy with a 10 Wheeler and a knuckle boom and you'll do best.
 
You might check & see if a Forestry Ranger, will check your site & give advice. Many times, they will replant for free [or used to]. Those HUGE trees, may be worthless. What??? Well, most sawmills, & pulpwood mills only take up to a certain size. Depends on the size of their saw. Pulpwood mills typically use a 20" Max limit, & that's on a straight line of 13'. So you have to figure for curves or knots, in the trunk. Anything larger than 20", most wont take. They won't spend the time/money, to split larger.
 
Forest service doesn't plant for free any more. Several friends are county rangers in different county's across NC. You can call and get them to look at your property for a management plan but it's not free. You could possibly ask them to get the distract Forester contact info for you. He would have some good references for loggers and so would your county ranger. BUT no one is really going to be interested in helping you for 4-6 weeks its peak fire season. With a 2500 acre fire on the Tennessee line and a 4000+? Fire on the coast they are being pulled from there counties to fight others fires right now
 
rodney eppes said:
You might check & see if a Forestry Ranger, will check your site & give advice. Many times, they will replant for free [or used to]. Those HUGE trees, may be worthless. What??? Well, most sawmills, & pulpwood mills only take up to a certain size. Depends on the size of their saw. Pulpwood mills typically use a 20" Max limit, & that's on a straight line of 13'. So you have to figure for curves or knots, in the trunk. Anything larger than 20", most wont take. They won't spend the time/money, to split larger.
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I've seen some lumber yards having quotes for up to 18-20" white pine calling them veneer logs or plylogs. I had been told that the best logs I had were the old growth 3-4' across. So, I guess the large ones are not desirable?
 
Not to derail the OP, but what about a small portable mill outfit. Onsight cut and mill. These guys seem more apt to cut your portion. And most likely not tear up Jack doing so......I could be wrong but have thought a few times of exploring this myself. Done a bit of felling work and worked two small circular mills in my teen years. I love me some wood and chainsaws.
 
Not a bad idea WW. But what if they drop a tree on themselves? Turn over their loader/skid steer? If Sawyer is dead they are just dead and have no control over their emotional family sueing you for some BS reason. It's unfortunate that we even have to think like that but it's reality. There is a niche in the market for small loggers just for this reason but logging is or was the #1 most dangerous job there for the 10 wheeler and loader tractor guy has a hard time with workers comp. If you aren't worried about that get several prices and go with the one that will give you the most $ and you feel like will do you right.
 
You said 4-5" but I assume you meant 4-5' (feet). That's a really huge pine, and if you have a good many of them, there is value I the timber. I've gotten as much as $200 for a 7x16 trailer load of nice pine trunks before, and none of them were over 24". That's me hauling them to a local sawmill, but 4-5ft is absolutely huge, and the right person will pay you well for them. I'd start by putting an ad on Craigslist with pictures since it's free and has a broad audience.
 
jeepinmatt said:
You said 4-5" but I assume you meant 4-5' (feet). That's a really huge pine, and if you have a good many of them, there is value I the timber. I've gotten as much as $200 for a 7x16 trailer load of nice pine trunks before, and none of them were over 24". That's me hauling them to a local sawmill, but 4-5ft is absolutely huge, and the right person will pay you well for them. I'd start by putting an ad on Craigslist with pictures since it's free and has a broad audience.
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Yes, some are 3-4' across. I measured one at chest height and it was 10'-6" around. There are only a half dozen of those and the rest are 24" across. The other pine is straight and about an average of 16"+/- across at chest height.
 
What hurts you a touch is they are white pine. Its a "pretty" wood and great for trim, but not as strong as a SYP...if you had long leafs those diameters you'd have some cash as they would make pole trees.

Its counter-intuitive but typically the smaller the equipment the bigger mess it makes. A larger tracked vehicle or RTS spreads the load and goes on, a smaller one will rut up a tract in a hurry.

A couple points if you do call the NCFS. A Forester and a forest ranger are different things. Calling a forester a park ranger is a good way to make an enemy. (Foresters have 4 year degrees, a rigorous test and re-cert process and Rangers need a GED... neither are paid much)

As stated above management plans are no longer free from the NCFS. There are tons of small consultants out there who can write a management plan for a nominal fee, but with your stated use I dont think it would benefit you. The MP play is if your are practicing good sustainable forestry initiatives as described in a site specific MP you can tax deduct 100% of the investment. I.E. reforestation cost. In some extreme and grey areas you can even tax shelter a road system through your property to control erosion.
 
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