Fan help/ideas Jeep WJ

raleighjeepguy

New Member
Joined
May 27, 2007
Location
Raleigh,nc
So here goes the story. Somehow when my ps pump went out my fan started a cute clicking noise. Its pretty obnoxious but no overheating to this date. Come to find out its the hydraulic fan system. Call up Jeep and they want a cute lil $1131 bucks for this fan assembly. Was told its non servicable and I'm pretty much sol. Anyone have any ideas of how I could do away with the hydraulic system and go with an electric? Its a 02 wj 4.7 btw
 
Is it not just a typical fan with a hydraulic fan clutch? Autozone's website says a fan clutch is like $55. If it is like the one on my 02 4.0 WJ, you have to take out the shroud at the same time as the mechanical fan just to get either of them out.
 
The 4.0 WJ has an electric fan, i don't see why you can't retro fit that in
 
No the 4.7 for certain years has a hydraulic setup

RADIATOR FAN - 4.7L DESCRIPTION
The hydraulic fan (Fig. 4) used on vehicles
equipped the 4.7L engine, replaces both the electric
fan and the engine driven mechanical fan. The
hydraulic cooling fan is integral to the fan shroud
and is located between the radiator and the engine.
The power steering pump supplies the hydraulic
fluid and pressure to rotate the cooling fan blade,
while the electrical part of the fan is controlled by
the JTEC.
The hydraulic fan drive (motor) consists of the
three major following components:

* Steering flow control valve
* Fan control valve
* Two stage G-rotor hydraulic drive

The hydraulic fan and drive is not serviceable.
Therefore any failure of the fan blade, hydraulic fan
drive or fan shroud requires replacement of the fan
module because the fan blade and hydraulic fan drive
are matched and balanced as a system and servicing
either separately would disrupt this balance.
For hydraulic fluid routing information refer to
(Fig. 5).
CAUTION: Do not attempt to service the hydraulic
cooling fan or fan drive separately replace the cooling
module as an assembly. Failure to do so may cause
severe damage to the hydraulic cooling fan assembly.

OPERATION
The hydraulic radiator cooling fan used on the
Grand Cherokee with the 4.7L engine replaces both
the electric fan and the engine driven mechanical
fan. The use of this hydraulic fan provides the 4.7L
equipped Grand Cherokee with heavy trailer tow
capability while at the same time reducing unnecessary
power drain on both the engine and the vehicles
electrical system.

HYDRAULIC FAN STRATEGY
The hydraulic radiator cooling fan is controlled by
the JTEC. A PWM (Pulse With Modulated) signal
from the JTEC controls the fan from 0 to 100% of the
available fan speed. There are four inputs to the
JTEC that determine what speed percentage of fan is
required by the vehicle. These inputs are:

* Engine Coolant Temperature
* Transmission Oil Temperature
* Battery Temperature
* A/C System Pressure

By monitoring these four parameters, the JTEC
can determine if cooling airflow is required. If airflow
is required, the JTEC will slowly ramp up (speed up)
the fan speed until the parameter(s) are under control.
Once the temperature or pressure is reduced to
within operating parameters the fan will ramp up,
ramp down, or hold its speed to maintain the temperature
/ pressure requirements.

NOTE: Even if the JTEC is not requesting fan on
operation the fan blade will usually spin between
100 and 500 RPM when the vehicle is at idle. This is
due to a controlled minimum oil flow requirement
through the fan drive motor.

RADIATOR COOLING FAN HYDRAULIC FLUID PATH
Hydraulic fluid is pumped through the power
steering pump, from the pump the fluid travels
though a high pressure delivery line to the fan drive
motor. As fluid is diverted through the G-rotors, rotational
motion is created as fluid moves from the highpressure
(inlet) side of the motor to the low-pressure
(outlet) side. Fluid exiting the drive motor is divided
into two paths. Path one continues through a high
pressure delivery line to the vehicles steering gear to
provide steering assist. and path two sends fluid
back to the power steering pump through a low pressure
line. Fluid exits the steering gear under low
pressure and travels through a low pressure line to
the power steering fluid cooler to be cooled before
being returned back the the power steering fluid reservoir.[/QUOTE

so its evidently not a servicable assembly.
Click to expand...
 
The noise started after replacing the pump? If that's the case what fluid did you use after replacing the pump there is a special PS fluid that needs to be used with the hydro fan or the fan solenoids do some weird stuff make noise, bypass when they should have the fan run at partial duty cycle.
If the wrong fluid was used the only thing I would try first would be to flush the system with the correct fluid.

Copied it from Dealerconnect, we have people come in after independent shops flush there power steering system and most of the time it can be saved.
POWER STEERING FLUID
This system requires the use of hydraulic system/power steering fluid which meets Daimler Chrysler specification MS-10838, such as Mopar part number 05142893AA, or equivalent, DO NOT MIX POWER STEERING FLUID TYPES. Damage may result to the power steering pump and system if any other fluid is used, and DO NOT OVERFILL.
 
rob92xj said:
The noise started after replacing the pump? If that's the case what fluid did you use after replacing the pump there is a special PS fluid that needs to be used with the hydro fan or the fan solenoids do some weird stuff make noise, bypass when they should have the fan run at partial duty cycle.
If the wrong fluid was used the only thing I would try first would be to flush the system with the correct fluid.
Copied it from Dealerconnect, we have people come in after independent shops flush there power steering system and most of the time it can be saved.
POWER STEERING FLUID
This system requires the use of hydraulic system/power steering fluid which meets Daimler Chrysler specification MS-10838, such as Mopar part number 05142893AA, or equivalent, DO NOT MIX POWER STEERING FLUID TYPES. Damage may result to the power steering pump and system if any other fluid is used, and DO NOT OVERFILL.
Click to expand...

winner, winner, chicken dinner
 
wow

actually had no idea it was special fluid. Gonna call the stealership here in a hot minute. Might be the ticket. Just for grins giggles b/c I doubt it will work but for my future information if I was going to do the swap would I need to reroute my ps pressure line directly to the steering instead of through the hydraulic fan and could I tap power directly off of the electric control for the hydro fan?


And god bless JU and there brilliance for saying no special fluid. I really need to block that site of my computer. Its been 3 weeks so who knows how shot it could be
 
raleighjeepguy said:
actually had no idea it was special fluid. Gonna call the stealership here in a hot minute. Might be the ticket. Just for grins giggles b/c I doubt it will work but for my future information if I was going to do the swap would I need to reroute my ps pressure line directly to the steering instead of through the hydraulic fan and could I tap power directly off of the electric control for the hydro fan?


And god bless JU and there brilliance for saying no special fluid. I really need to block that site of my computer. Its been 3 weeks so who knows how shot it could be
Click to expand...

Well the problem is that the "special fluid" is just mopar power steering fluid, but evidently some(?) use ATF and this causes some folks to use it in the WJ and it reall F's up the hydraulic fan setup. Good luck, hopefully flushing it.will fix it.
 
kcarroll said:
Well the problem is that the "special fluid" is just mopar power steering fluid, but evidently some(?) use ATF and this causes some folks to use it in the WJ and it reall F's up the hydraulic fan setup. Good luck, hopefully flushing it.will fix it.
Click to expand...
It is NOT ATF, it is Hydraulic system power steering fluid, part number off the bottle is 5142893AA @ $10 a qt..

If you really wanted to get rid of the hydro fan you will need a new PCM(good luck finding one without the hydro fan) a new power steering pump and new power steering lines plus the electric cooling fan.

Like I said before try flushing it is alot cheaper then replacing the fan assembly.

I work at a Jeep dealership and there have not been too many problems with that system.
 
Went to the stealership. Got a service tech to take a look at it while I was gonna grab some fluid. He said the bearings in the fan are shot and actually can see a slight wobble now. Looks like Im hosed atm. Said I should avoid imminent destruction of the fan for awhile but who knows. You can turn the fan manually and it will click w/o the vehicle running.
 
Power steering fluid and ATF are thinner then the hydro fluid I really would try flushing it before condemning it. I have a 02 WJ with a 4.7L and hydro cooling fan as well as a 07 WK also with the hydro fan with either of them there is a slight wobble in the fan assembly.
 
it is Hydraulic system power steering fluid, part number off the bottle is 5142893AA @ $10 a qt..
Click to expand...
20 a qt in raleigh. Jesus if I ever stop feeling ripped off with this wj I'll smile all day long. 30 bucks a qt for gear oil, 20 for ps fluid, 1200 for a fan, and of course I'm about to address the blend doors. F'n engineers should be shot in the jock
 
raleighjeepguy said:
... F'n engineers should be shot in the jock
Click to expand...
I felt the same way when I had to replace the electric fan relay on our WJ, and then again when I had to replace the radiator. I'm an engineer, and one of the things I am most proud of is I always try to make equipment and systems I design easy to work on. I guess the difference is time it takes our maintenance techs to work on stuff costs us big money. Time it takes stealerships to work on stuff makes them big money.
 
this all sounds like typically german overengineering. :shaking:i hate working on anything made from over there b/c of expensive parts and overdesigned systems like this.
 
VortecJeep said:
I felt the same way when I had to replace the electric fan relay on our WJ, and then again when I had to replace the radiator. I'm an engineer, and one of the things I am most proud of is I always try to make equipment and systems I design easy to work on. I guess the difference is time it takes our maintenance techs to work on stuff costs us big money. Time it takes stealerships to work on stuff makes them big money.
Click to expand...
Makes who big money? Warranty work friggin sux but you have to take the good with the bad.

Alot of the reason for the way things are designed it to make it easier to build at the plant not on how it is serviced, the faster they can produce them the faster it gets to the consumer.

Most warranty work we the techs lose money, and to make it worse is right now Chrysler is only paying a maximum of 9/10 for diagnostics.

raleighjeepguy if you want to make a trip down to Fayetteville I can see what I can do to help you out I think I might have a few quarts in my garage I'll check tomorrow.

Jeepman the hydro cooling fan was in the works before Daimler and Chrysler merged. First vehicle to get it was the 99 WJ with the 4.7L then the 03 and later Ram 2500/3500's with the Cummins engines. They are actually a reliable system as long as the right fluids are used, biggest problem we have with the WJ's is power steering fluid leaks from the pump seals or the pressure line from the pump to the fan.
 
Jeepman the hydro cooling fan was in the works before Daimler and Chrysler merged. First vehicle to get it was the 99 WJ with the 4.7L then the 03 and later Ram 2500/3500's with the Cummins engines. They are actually a reliable system as long as the right fluids are used, biggest problem we have with the WJ's is power steering fluid leaks from the pump seals or the pressure line from the pump to the fan.[/QUOTE]


didnt know that. figured it was a new daimler design.
 
It takes about 3-5 years to go from a concept to production, and the WJ got to be the guinea pig also proved that Dana can build a garbage set of axles too which is why the Ram 2500/3500's got AAM axles.
 
raleighjeepguy if you want to make a trip down to Fayetteville I can see what I can do to help you out I think I might have a few quarts in my garage I'll check tomorrow.
Click to expand...
No dice on the fluid. Changed it today and no such luck. Still ticking away. Did find however that if you turn the wheel all the way to right or left the ticking goes away. In my mind that points to the pump being a pos but I'm gonan try and research how this damn thing works alil more to understand whats going on.
 
You're going to need to work the wheel all the way back and forth several times to work the fluid into the system, that's why the ticking changes. Not sure how to "flush" the old or possibly wrong fluid out?
 
My thought at this point is there is a pressure problem. FOund the out line on the pump is kinked pretty bad. So in my assumptions when you turn the wheel full chock you are getting full pressure. So either the kink is limiting the out pressure or the pump is limiting the in pressure. Wondering if I got a pump for the standard system instead of the hydro since the hydro has a higher output pressure.
 
Standard power steering pump will not work with the hydro system the fittings are bigger.

How did you change the fluid? We actually flush the system takes about 4-5 qts to flush it completely if it was filled with the wrong fluid. Can you post a pic of the kink in the line?

I also have access to a power steering pressure tester and analyzer.
 
This might help

THIS BULLETIN IS BEING PROVIDED IN ADVANCE. DO NOT ORDER PARTS OR
PERFORM ANY ACTIONS RELATED TO THIS BULLETIN UNTIL JAN. 20, 2003.
SUBJECT:
Newly Released Solenoid For DTC P1499 - Hydraulic Fan Solenoid Circuit Fault
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves the replacement of the hydraulic fan solenoid instead
of the complete cooling fan module.
MODELS:
2001 - 2004 (WJ) Grand Cherokee
2001 - 2004 (WG) Grand Cherokee (International Markets)
NOTE: THIS BULLETIN APPLIES TO VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A HYDRAULIC
COOLING SYSTEM (SALES CODE NMH).
SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
The customer may experience a MIL illumination due to DTC P1499 - Hydraulic Fan
Solenoid Circuit. The MIL illumination may occur intermittently.
DIAGNOSIS:
1. Proceed with this bulletin only if the cause of the MIL illumination is due to
DTC P1499 - Hydraulic Fan Solenoid Circuit Fault.
2. Refer to the 2002 or later Jeep Grand Cherokee – Powertrain Diagnostic
Procedures Manual to properly diagnose DTC P1499.
3. If the diagnostic procedures determine that the hydraulic fan solenoid is
at fault, then perform the Repair Procedure.
NOTE: THE HYDRAULIC FAN SOLENOID LISTED BELOW HAS BEEN RELEASED
AS A SEPARATE ITEM. THE COMPLETE HYDRAULIC FAN MODULE NO LONGER
REQUIRES REPLACEMENT WHEN ONLY THE SOLENOID IS FOUND TO BE AT FAULT.
PARTS REQUIRED:
Qty. Part No. Description
1 05102210AA Solenoid, Hydraulic Fan
07-005-02 -2-
EQUIPMENT REQUIRED:
CH6000 Scan Tool (DRB III®)
CH7000/7001 J1962 Cable
REPAIR PROCEDURE:
1. With the engine off, disconnect the negative battery cable from the
negative battery terminal.
2. Raise the vehicle on a suitable lift.
3. Clean the immediate area around the hydraulic fan solenoid of any debris.
4. Disconnect the electrical harness from the hydraulic fan solenoid (Fig. 1).
5. Have the new hydraulic fan solenoid ready for installation. Make certain that the two
o-rings are in place. Notice that the armature of the solenoid can rotate within the body
of the solenoid (coil). A T40 torx bit is used for removal and installation (Fig. 2).
NOTE: IF THE SOLENOID REMOVAL AND REPLACEMENT STEPS ARE PERFORMED
QUICKLY, THEN ONLY A VERY SMALL AMOUNT OF STEERING FLUID WILL
DRIP FROM THE FAN MODULE HYDRAULIC FAN SOLENOID OPENING.
THE SMALL AMOUNT OF LEAKAGE SHOULD NOT REQUIRE PRIOR FLUID
REMOVAL FROM THE POWER STEERING RESERVOIR.
6. Hold the connector of the solenoid to prevent the solenoid body from turning, and
remove the hydraulic fan solenoid from the hydraulic fan module.
7. Immediately install the new hydraulic fan solenoid. Tighten the
solenoid to 16.2 Nm (12 ft. lbs.).
8. Connect the electrical harness to the hydraulic fan solenoid.
NOTE: IF FOR ANY REASON DURING THE REPAIR PROCEDURE THE
ELECTRICAL GROUND WIRE IS REMOVED FROM THE HYDRAULIC FAN
MODULE ASSEMBLY, THEN RECONNECT THE GROUND WIRE AND TIGHTEN
THE RETENTION NUT TO 10 NM (7.4 FT. LBS.). FAILURE TO ENSURE THE
GROUND STRAP IS PROPERLY CONNECTED COULD RESULT IN ELECTROSTATIC
DISCHARGE THAT MAY DAMAGE THE PCM.
9. Lower the vehicle.
10. Connect the negative battery cable to the battery negative terminal.
11. Verify the fluid level in the power steering reservoir. Top off the fluid level as necessary.
 
So got my first free day this morning to take a really good look at it and feel awesomely retarded about it. Thought it was a pressure problem b/c when you turned the wheel all the way it stopped. Turns out when I replaced the pump I unclipped one of the hydro lines and didn't realize it. So the line would get pressurized and move then hit the fan. Spent about 100 bucks in fluid (needed to be done anyways) and turned out a 5 cent ziptie cured it. Thanks for all the help guys and I'm just happy at this point it wasn't something more $.
 
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