Confederate Flag.... what's it mean to you?

[Paul]

It's about history, the U.S. has LOT'S of history good and bad just like all nations. Racism would be closer to being "history" here if some peeps were not using any and all excuses to declare/try to prove it is unchanged and as common as in the past. Just a look at a pic of the killers face/expression tells me he was insane, just like the boy in Conn. a few years ago.

Yes. Remember the history or you shall repeat it.

 

[Jeff B]

This flag, symbol, Heritage is about suffering. period. Not about black or white, just pain. The pain of lost sons & brothers fighting brothers. Rebellion against tyranny. I wish these fighters were amongst us now.

I will give no fucks about this attachment to a symbol, however the patriots have my utmost respect.


I wish we had those patriots now, rather than the pussies that walk amongst us..

Look around you, see the collective weakness- relying on the government to fix EVERYTHING. somebody dies in a boating accident the want to regulate more, rather than educate more. The issue runs so much deeper that a fucking frivolous symbol of days past..

Gawd, what have we become?

 

[mommucked]

 

[CLRracer]

I am a history major that focused on the Civil War and reconstruction. I can cite many facts, but no one ever wants to hear them on here.

Just from your two posts in this thread it seems as if you take your schooling as the end all of the discussion and aren't open to others ideas or opinions to the topic. I could be wrong because I haven't been involved in other discussions on this topic with you, but that's how I see it.

Duane

 

[Ron]

I am a history major that focused on the Civil War and reconstruction. I can cite many facts, but no one ever wants to hear them on here.

Well go ahead.
I'm all ears.
"No one ever..." huh?

Try me.

 

[Blaze]

I've had the discussion before but have been insulted and ridiculed, I expect nothing else but more of the same.

I will throw out the fact that early in Lincoln's presidency he sent a letter to the Southern states offering to allow slavery and even add it to the Constitution, if they would agree to not expand slavery to new territories and states. They rejected it because they wanted to expand slavery. They wanted to move into Mexico, Cuba, Brazil, etc.

But seriously, the Civil War was the darkest time in American history. Why the hell would anyone want to hang on to that? People are all like AMERICA FUCK YEAH and then in the next breath are all THE SOUTH WILL RISE AGAIN! What is it? Are you an American or what? Even if the war was NOT about slavery, the Confederate flag is a symbol of the old South, which embraced slavery. How could that NOT be insulting to black people?

The only thing the Confederate flag is good for is good war movies and the Dukes of Hazzard.

 

[mommucked]

so the Incas, Aztecs, Spanish, ( south america) Africans, Europeans, Asians, India, Middle East, English etc.etc.etc didn't have slaves before us, but we are responsible for slavery?..............."some peeps"............

 

[adam greene]

Seen this on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...7&set=a.1236416867042.38425.1127846927&type=1

 

[adam greene]

This one has hung in my garage for years might have to get it out and tie it to the truck to piss some ppl off

 

[ManglerYJ]

Good to see some dialogue on this subject. As I figured, there's a lot more to this than meets the eye.

I was a bit of a Civil War buff in high school and was excited to move from Michigan to hopefully see some of the Civil War landmarks I read about in the history books. As stated, the Civil War was less about slavery than it was for "State's Rights to govern themselves" Individual states wanted the right to create laws independent of each other so that certain states that already embraced things like slave ownership, etc. wouldn't be forced to give up just because other states didn't embrace it. That's the nerf-ball marshmallow version, but in a nutshell it was "the rights of the minority can not be trampled by the demands of the majority".

Sadly, we live in a time of ignorant hyper-sensitivity to the "offensive" where everyone has to be enraged against something and rally against the offense even if they aren't the one the offense is intended against or if they even understand it.

I'm not surprised that Walmart and now Sears have vowed to eliminate Confederate flag merchandise from their lines. It's a hot-button social media driven world we live in and they are just doing the logical knee-jerk reaction to the latest news story where some nut-ball goes on a shooting rampage, "Killing in the Name of..." whatever his weak mind was told to do. If only someone would go on a shooting rampage because they believed that it was to honor Miley Cyrus maybe we can get her merchandise pulled from the shelves at Walmart too.

More offensive to me, however, is that nobody has railed about the fact that most of the Confederate flag merchandise, just about all of the American flags and merchandise associated with it that are sold on these stores are not even made in America.

 

[88bronzetrooper]

As a people we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause.
—William T. Thompson (April 23, 1863), Daily Morning News

As a national emblem, it is significant of our higher cause, the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity, and barbarism. Another merit in the new flag is, that it bears no resemblance to the now infamous banner of the Yankee vandals.
—William T. Thompson (May 4, 1863), Daily Morning News

"The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization."

"Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition." - Conerstone speech Alexander Stevens- Macrch 21, 1861

That right there is just a few quotes made by the man who designed the second flag of the Confedercy and By the Vice president of the Confedercy himself Alexander Stevens. That speech was to outline exactly what was different with the Confederate states verses the union. It was the conerstone ideals of the Confederate Constitution and why it was know as the conerstone speech. How can you then argue that the Civil War was over anything else then slavery? Yes you can say it was states rights and standing up to a government they didnt agree with but the disagreements were over owning Slaves.

 

[drkelly]

To me it is two cool guys living the dream hauling ass in an old orange car that I never once saw them fill up with gas.

 

[liftedblazer97]

I have my hood and tailgate wrapped with the rebel flag and it has the angry monkey in the middle. My blazer is called the mud monkey. I'm from the south and I rep it. I personally don't care what others think.

 

[StretchASU]

To me it is two cool guys living the dream hauling ass in an old orange car that I never once saw them fill up with gas.

Never thought about that

 

[liftedblazer97]

 

[McCracken]

I don't see how taking a flag down is going to do anything. I highly doubt that this moron went to the state house everyday and filled his chest with pride by seeing the battle flag flown. This whole thing likens to the statement, "What has been seen, cannot be unseen." The flag is here and will be here for a long time. Whether you fly it above a building or in the bed of your pick up truck. People will be exposed to it and use it however they see fit. If they think by removing it all of our problems will go away they've got another thing coming.

 

[MarineTillDeath]

You actually have to start with some facts before you can argue them. You've stated two opinions and half of an incorrect fact. While slavery was a reason for the Civil War, it wasn't about the expansion of slavery, and slavery could be (and has been) argued to have not even been the biggest cause.

Personally I see the arguments both ways. I have flown and occasionally fly a Confederate Battle Flag, but more so now fly a First National Flag when inclined to fly anything other than an American Flag.

Duane

Here's my take on it, and coming from the North I'm sure there are a lot on here who don't agree with me.

It is a symbol of racism and not tradition. Like I said to a friend of mine the other day who said it was "heritage not hate", that is just an excuse to not admit that your great great great grandfather was a racist.

Civil War was fought over the expansion of slavery. Confederate flag is a symbol of that. Fuck "heritage" it is an insult to black people in this country and people need to finally admit that much and stop using it.

That's all I will say about it, because from what I have found arguing these facts is like arguing with a sack of hammers.

The war was not over the expansion of slavery. That be the case if you know your history Lincoln was actually planning to send all slaves back to Africa. Not "free them" in the U.S. like he promised them.

Saying the confederate flag is a racial symbol if just the same as saying the American flag is a racial symbol from it being flown by Andrew Jackson ...our president to steal land from Indians and fly the flag while marching them to death. Or the flag of Italy which is on most every pizza box in the U.S ... That flag was flown by Mucilini in WW2 while on a murderous rampage with the Nazis. Or the flag of Japan stamped on 6 thousand bombers that flew over pearl harbor murdering un armed soldiers and civilians. All of these flags are still flown today. They may have stood for something different in those present moments of history. But they meant something else when they were created. Same as today. Flags are history, flags are symbols of a certain cause, a certain meaning, a nation a heritage. Flags give people hope and meaning and a reason to fight and die for that flag. Every ones view and opinion is different. But the fact of the matter is the confederate flag was created as the national flag of the Confederate States of America. 13 states that wanted to succeed from the North & become their own Nation. Just the same as U.S while fighting the British in the revolutionary war.


Yes there are people who fly the confederate flag just for racial causes and those people are the ones who have given the flag a bad name.

But there are people who are born and bred in the southern states who believe in tradition and honor of this great country who support every flag ever flown by a US soldier because millions of souls have lost their lives fighting for our flags. Lives that should not be forgotten because the media says a certain flag represents racism.

The public wants to completely do away with the confederate flag. The government wants to not teach the cival war in school to out kids anymore. The fact of the matter is that my friend is history..OUR history. Every proud Americans history no matter where you come from. & there is nothing anyone can do to change history .... Unless you have a Deloreon.

 

[6BangBronk]

Seems the list of offensive items is just going to keep on growing. Seems the problem is all the butthurt they are creating, not the items themselves. When and where do you draw the line???

Confederate flag
Nazi Swastika
KKK
Shark Bite T's at Oak Island
Head vails
Race Slang ("N" / Cracker / Raghead / Etc.)
Merry Christmas
10 Commandments (Church and State)
Marijuana Leaf Prints
Pants drooping to your knees running around in underwear
On and on and friggin on...

I'd rather see ghetto slum with crotch droops than to see a fat ass showing his entire hairy crack every time he bends over cause he can't find pants to fit.

It's getting to the point you can't say / wear / do anything anymore without offending someone. There's always going to be worse to top it. If we all wore and said the same thing, this world would be rather boring. Different Strokes for Different folks...

My personal opinion. JUST GET OVER IT...

 

[Blaze]

The war was not over the expansion of slavery. That be the case if you know your history Lincoln was actually planning to send all slaves back to Africa. Not "free them" in the U.S. like he promised them.

Lincoln's positions on slavery and freeing the slaves changed through his presidency. Many people take a snapshot of Lincoln and adapt it to what they want to believe he thought. In the beginning he did believe in sending them to Liberia or even Central America but by the time he was assassinated he realized the wrongs of that idea. But yeah, I guess I don't know my history. My bad.

 

[MarineTillDeath]

 

[88bronzetrooper]

No just because you remove the flag is not going to solve our problem with race in this country. But everyone has the right in this country to feel safe and EQUAL. As the constitution says every man is equal. So flying a flag for a defunct nation that wanted to enslave a whole race over the capital if this country is no different then trying to fly a Nazi flag over the capital building in Germany.

 

[Ron]

Lincoln's positions on slavery and freeing the slaves changed through his presidency. Many people take a snapshot of Lincoln and adapt it to what they want to believe he thought. In the beginning he did believe in sending them to Liberia or even Central America but by the time he was assassinated he realized the wrongs of that idea. But yeah, I guess I don't know my history. My bad.

Let me say this S L O W L Y for you.
At the time of his death LINCOLN OWNED SLAVES.
He never freed his OWN house servants.

Damn lets not revise history.

 

[Ron]

No just because you remove the flag is not going to solve our problem with race in this country. But everyone has the right in this country to feel safe and EQUAL. As the constitution says every man is equal. So flying a flag for a defunct nation that wanted to enslave a whole race over the capital if this country is no different then trying to fly a Nazi flag over the capital building in Germany.

Uhh dude.
That flag hasnt flown over a State Capital in over a decade.

At the request of the NAACP the state of SC removed the flag from atop the Capitol and place it at the Confederate Veteran's Memorial Monument on the State House grounds.

 

[Cribb]

Lincoln's positions on slavery and freeing the slaves changed through his presidency. Many people take a snapshot of Lincoln and adapt it to what they want to believe he thought. In the beginning he did believe in sending them to Liberia or even Central America but by the time he was assassinated he realized the wrongs of that idea. But yeah, I guess I don't know my history. My bad.

Robert E. Lee had the same developing "God given" beliefs about slaves, IMO (I wasn't there) from all that I've read without the political sway since he wasn't President. He had them, but freed them when it was God's will, to him. That was a different time and place. As ass backwards and cruel as slavery is today, it was common and accepted back then....not just here. Remember where the slaves were purchased from? This was a world market selling free (albeit cruel) labor to a labor intensive agricultural exporting economy that wouldn't survive without it. Lincoln was NOT the savior he is made out to be and no politician is and ever will be. They are bought and paid for and he was no different in doing what he thought was best for his constituents. Was it OK for Lincoln to "let" Sherman terrorize the South killing and pillaging civilians along the way? It was war, I get it, but Lincoln was not this humanitarian as he has been portrayed. Gettysburg was over more than a year prior. The South was pretty much done at that point. He went after his own, not confederate armies, but the people just to send a message.

The flag, and it's meaning, has been hijacked over the last 100 years and that's what pisses me off. It's meaning has evolved for the worse in the eyes of many. Should it come down? Probably so. It wasn't like it was put up when Bobby Lee surrendered. It was put up on the dome as an insult some 90 years later (correction: It was put up in '62 to commemorate the 100 yr anniversary of the Civil War...it was my interpretation that it was kind of a slap in the face during the time of segregation....sorry 'bout that). A settlement was made in Columbia to bring it down to a memorial and an African American monument was installed as well. Now that's not good enough. When will it end? Monuments in small towns, street names, building names, etc.? Now, after the murders of 9 to the hands of a psycho? Now? The bodies aren't even buried yet. This is being politicized by the grandstanding race baiters who never let a good crisis go to waste. Our own freaking POTUS pushed his own agenda before the church was even cleaned up. Put the flag in a museum with the rest of the Confederate memorabilia....that'll be opposed to because it will be paid for with state funds. Just watch...the effort to erase history won't end. This is distracting from the souls that deserve respect right now.... the victims from Mother Emanuel AME. Can't we deal with this later? I doubt those victims wanted their life purpose to be to bring down a damn flag.

And kudos to the people of Charleston and SC for dealing with this tragedy as they have. Remember, this was on the heels of an officer murdering a black man. Things could have gone way wrong.





Disclaimer: SC Lowcountry Native.

 

[ManglerYJ]

Uhh dude.
That flag hasnt flown over a State Capital in over a decade.

At the request of the NAACP the state of SC removed the flag from atop the Capitol and place it at the Confederate Veteran's Memorial Monument on the State House grounds.

While it may not be the flag flown directly over the capitol building, the Confederate flag is still being flown on the grounds. Hence, the newsworthy stories:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/23/us/south-carolina-confederate-flag-dylann-roof.html?_r=0

I personally don't feel that it changes anything. I'm not Southern, but I feel as though since the Confederate flag is rooted in such deep history in SC, I can't imagine anyone dropping it so easily. Regardless of where it is flown, it will still be the individual symbol that each eye sees differently.

That being said, what some see as "heritage", others see as believing something or acting a certain way just "because my daddy did, and his daddy before him and his daddy's daddy before him" is also mindless. You should know why you believe what you believe no matter what it is. That's what differentiates us from Lemmings.