Boirl Scouts

kaiser715

Doing hard time
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Location
7, Pocket, NC
On the news this a.m…..

BSA board voted in girls. Cub dens next year. Scout troops a couple of years after.

GSA is really pissed off. They say its all about the BSA making a money grab with new members, and will kill off their program. Actually, they’ve already done that themselves, by going PC several years ago. BSA ought to realize that going down that same path is going to kill them too.

But, then again, look at the BSA board — bunch of whiney ass liberal democrat fags.

Can't wait to see Trumps tweets on this.
 
They interviewed a teenage girl last night that was pumped about it. She was all butthurt because her BROTHER was able to become an eagle scout. And she felt like she shouldn't be KEPT from achieving the same status simply because she's a girl.

OK, I get it. She wants to be a part of something other great leaders have been able to achieve. But are you willing to destroy the program to get it?
 
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This has been a hot topic at our house, especially after the announcement yesterday.

As a father to three girls and one boy, I can say fairly that if girls want or need a better program, then the Girl Scouts need to step up and provide that instead of pushing cookies and making crafts. And Boy Scouts need to get back to their original roots that made BSA what it was. Quit diluting programs because someone is offended or not included. It's life!

My son has the chance to become a third generation Eagle Scout. Problem is the program is now so flaky with popcorn sales and all the alternative lifestyle inclusion that it's not as grand as once considered.
 
The BSA has always tried to keep up with the changing times in order to provide a better program for their youth no matter their race, age, or religion and now gender. A little back ground information on me in relation to this subject. I have recently came through all three parts of the scouting the program YES THREE!! Through the Cub Scouts then the Boy Scouts program I earned my Eagle Scout and became a apart of the Order Of the Arrow also known as OA it is national honor society of boy scouts that serves as the back bone for scouting. Then I joined what is called a Venture Crew at 16 after i earned my Eagle while i was still extremely active in the OA. A Venture Crew can be all one gender or co-ed. Mine was co-ed. OMG girls in scouting already!!. Venture crew is from ages 14-21 and has program similar to Boy Scouts but focuses on skills for everyday and for high adventure activity or specialized activities. I also served as the youth representative for the Central North Carolina Council for 2 years and as a member of the camping committee organizing and running events. I was able to do this because i was the Lodge Chief for OA lodge associated with the Council. The council is made up of Cabarrus, Rowan, Stanly, Montgomery, Union, Anson, and Richmond County. The OA lodge is ran by youth just like the ideal Boy Scout Troop. Our advisers jobs where to make sure our plans where safe, and wouldn't bank-rupt the lodge because everything costs money. Even when our plants didn't work they would give us a little guidance but it was up to us to make the decisions and put plans into action.

Girls in Scouts
Now that you know a little back ground on me. From what I have seen and had to participate in as a leading youth in a boy scout council for a few years this has been in the works for a long time. Venturing was created in the early 2000's as way to provide a program for the girls that where to old to join and complete the girl scouting program. It was made for male who either wasn't interested in the normal scouting or already achieved eagle to join and still learn scouting skills a life knowledge. I know for sure that in 2015 that having girls joined the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts was in the work. In 2015 the OA held a national conference at MSU they hold every four years or so (they changed it to line up with anniversaries and around other national events). At this event this event the Lodge Cheif's where invited for a Q&A that also served as survey on opinions for the National Board. Guess what they asked us about girls joining the scouting program in all aspects. What better way to get opinions from a youth ran organization by asking the youth that run it. Also many of the High Adventure Bases and Summer Camps are staffed by Venture and OA scouts so the staff is already co-ed.

Everything costs money. Scouting is not about profit but scouting needs money to run. The main way scouting brings in money is through membership. Membership has been falling way before the first political incident involving scouting. It is hard for an active organization to compete with video games, sports and other activities. It takes parents to bring the scouts to the meetings and most parents arent willing to any more when their kid can just play a video game in their room. Most of theses bigger changes is an attempt to reach more youth. Scouting could solve these issues by raising the national dues but they would loose members. Last years national dues was only around 20 bucks if i remember correctly and some of the people that need to the scouting program the most can barely afford it. Know a few units that are completely supported by donations because they are made up of low income families. Those are my favorite units to interact with at camps and events because I know those scouts are learning things that are going to help them raise up and not fail in life. I know of few scouts that seeing them walking down the street you would never think they where a scout or ever go off to college but they did and not just community college. One scout still messages me every once in awhile he went from failing and not trying in school into getting almost a full ride to Chapel Hill because the Scouting program taught him skills and showed him that you can succeed in life even though the odds are stacked against you.

Membership isn't going to sky rocket right away but over time will as it provide a great program for the youth of america just like the scouting program does in other countries. OMG there is scouting in other countries!! Yes in many others and they are all connected through the world scout movement. Come 2018 Sadi-Arabia is the only scouting movement that doesn't allow girls in all aspects of the movement.

My Opinion:
I fully support the change but it needs to be done correctly with implementing more standards for Youth Protection than venturing follows because now you are involving younger participants that don't understand certain things and cant be taught just yet.

Sorry this is long winded but this is a topic i care allot about. If you want more or have question just let me know!
 
This has been a hot topic at our house, especially after the announcement yesterday.

As a father to three girls and one boy, I can say fairly that if girls want or need a better program, then the Girl Scouts need to step up and provide that instead of pushing cookies and making crafts. And Boy Scouts need to get back to their original roots that made BSA what it was. Quit diluting programs because someone is offended or not included. It's life!

My son has the chance to become a third generation Eagle Scout. Problem is the program is now so flaky with popcorn sales and all the alternative lifestyle inclusion that it's not as grand as once considered.

Many units are still what i call Old School its just a matter of finding one. Many units are opting for other fundraisers and just paying for the patches them selves because that is the only thing selling popcorn got a unit besides like the 10% of the sales from my knowledge. I have seen the program start to fall since i was in it a few years ago

Getting scouting back to its roots needs to happen. It was created to help the youth of america to become great adults.
 
Good response. But sounds like you drank too much of the council kool-aid.

BSA needs more money because (partly) they are top heavy in administration. Council to national. I was a Scoutmaster starting in 1986. This was pre-internet era, and I knew all the admin at council level, and several at regional and national levels. Admin, and the infrastructure to support that, got out of hand, maybe 20 years ago starting. ...and has been sucking the life out of the organization. Everything became centered on costs, expenses, and revenue rather than what should be the prime purpose of Scouting, building leaders.

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Good response. But sounds like you drank too much of the council kool-aid.

BSA needs more money because (partly) they are top heavy in administration. Council to national. I was a Scoutmaster starting in 1986. This was pre-internet era, and I knew all the admin at council level, and several at regional and national levels. Admin, and the infrastructure to support that, got out of hand, maybe 20 years ago starting. ...and has been sucking the life out of the organization. Everything became centered on costs, expenses, and revenue rather than what should be the prime purpose of Scouting, building leaders.

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Truth!

My best friend from 30+ years ago that I met in BSA, attended summer camp, Philmont, National Jamboree together and we still talk today was a District Executive. He was so disappointed in what BSA had become. More about money than the actual program. Now I understand this will vary from council to council, but everything was about how to increase revenue. It wasn't about the program or how to make it better. He eventually moved on because it was like any large corporation.
 
Truth!

My best friend from 30+ years ago that I met in BSA, attended summer camp, Philmont, National Jamboree together and we still talk today was a District Executive. He was so disappointed in what BSA had become. More about money than the actual program. Now I understand this will vary from council to council, but everything was about how to increase revenue. It wasn't about the program or how to make it better. He eventually moved on because it was like any large corporation.

I just started taking my son to cub scouts this fall, and I picked up on that already. Luckily the troup he is in is more old school and the Leader is focused on the troop and kids, moreso than the organization. I dont care for all the popcorn sales, etc, but I can also afford to pay/donate the money needed for my son to do the things he wants in scouts. He has indicated that he doesnt care for popcorn much either but until the donations are high enough to fund the troop, there isnt much other options, but he is open to them all. I am also glad that his leader is dedicated to doing things like scouting in the past and getting outdoors often. I was never involved in scouting, but have many friends that were/are and I can see the need for many. I believe the need, in general, is greater today than it was years ago. I have a young friend who recently lost his grandfather and doesnt have a father figure in his life. BSA has definitely helped him mature into a young man, and be better prepared for life. He recently got his Eagle Scout and will likely continue to the next steps in the program.

As far as girls involvement. Many troops around here are entirely led by women, and if you are a father taking your son, you might be the only man there. It is sad for sure. I figured it was only a matter of time. I dont really have a dog in the fight and arent a lifetime BSA person, so we will keep going as long as my son is safe, and having fun. Any skills that he would learn there, he is going to know otherwise as video games arent an option.
 
Good response. But sounds like you drank too much of the council kool-aid.

BSA needs more money because (partly) they are top heavy in administration. Council to national. I was a Scoutmaster starting in 1986. This was pre-internet era, and I knew all the admin at council level, and several at regional and national levels. Admin, and the infrastructure to support that, got out of hand, maybe 20 years ago starting. ...and has been sucking the life out of the organization. Everything became centered on costs, expenses, and revenue rather than what should be the prime purpose of Scouting, building leaders.

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Yeah I spent to many evenings at camp drinking the kool-aid. Yeah it was evident at NOAC that the organization was extremely top heavy.

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As an Eagle Scout, as well as Brotherhood OA member, I am thoroughly disappointed in what BSA has become. I know that it started many years ago but it has went downhill fast the last few years. When they started letting gay boys and leaders into scouts and turning away from core values as a Christian organization. It really discorouged me and everyone else in my troop. I was SPL at the time and had I not been in charge probably would have quit. All I lacked for Eagle was my project and final board of review. We lost 8 boys the week that they announced that. I decided to finish my Eagle for the sole reason that I had done most all the work before things really went south. I had plans of staying with scouts and being a leader, but after that decision, we closed the troop to new members and are letting the last two boys get Eagle. Im still proud to be an Eagle Scout, but I am ashamed at what BSA is turning into.
 

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This has been a hot topic at our house, especially after the announcement yesterday.

As a father to three girls and one boy, I can say fairly that if girls want or need a better program, then the Girl Scouts need to step up and provide that instead of pushing cookies and making crafts. And Boy Scouts need to get back to their original roots that made BSA what it was. Quit diluting programs because someone is offended or not included. It's life!

My son has the chance to become a third generation Eagle Scout. Problem is the program is now so flaky with popcorn sales and all the alternative lifestyle inclusion that it's not as grand as once considered.

I have a girl in GS and my boy will probably be in BS. I fully agree with this. Obviously, the girls want something more than cookies and crafts. Me too! I want my girl in the woods. That's one of the main reasons I bought a place at Hurricane Creek. I want my little girl to know there's more fun out there than what the TV and tablet provides.

Now this is where some may have a problem with what I say but part of the problem is that there are limited women that can teach what the Boy Scouts can. They want them to be strong leaders and capable girls but I know for a fact that my girl's leader couldn't start a fire with a can of gas and a match. So the real obstacle/challenge to me is how do you keep women in charge of the Girl Scouts and give them the skills they need to show our future lady leaders skills beyond the cookie box?

The BSA has always tried to keep up with the changing times in order to provide a better program for their youth no matter their race, age, or religion and now gender. A little back ground information on me in relation to this subject. I have recently came through all three parts of the scouting the program YES THREE!! Through the Cub Scouts then the Boy Scouts program I earned my Eagle Scout and became a apart of the Order Of the Arrow also known as OA it is national honor society of boy scouts that serves as the back bone for scouting. Then I joined what is called a Venture Crew at 16 after i earned my Eagle while i was still extremely active in the OA. A Venture Crew can be all one gender or co-ed. Mine was co-ed. OMG girls in scouting already!!. Venture crew is from ages 14-21 and has program similar to Boy Scouts but focuses on skills for everyday and for high adventure activity or specialized activities. I also served as the youth representative for the Central North Carolina Council for 2 years and as a member of the camping committee organizing and running events. I was able to do this because i was the Lodge Chief for OA lodge associated with the Council. The council is made up of Cabarrus, Rowan, Stanly, Montgomery, Union, Anson, and Richmond County. The OA lodge is ran by youth just like the ideal Boy Scout Troop. Our advisers jobs where to make sure our plans where safe, and wouldn't bank-rupt the lodge because everything costs money. Even when our plants didn't work they would give us a little guidance but it was up to us to make the decisions and put plans into action.

Girls in Scouts
Now that you know a little back ground on me. From what I have seen and had to participate in as a leading youth in a boy scout council for a few years this has been in the works for a long time. Venturing was created in the early 2000's as way to provide a program for the girls that where to old to join and complete the girl scouting program. It was made for male who either wasn't interested in the normal scouting or already achieved eagle to join and still learn scouting skills a life knowledge. I know for sure that in 2015 that having girls joined the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts was in the work. In 2015 the OA held a national conference at MSU they hold every four years or so (they changed it to line up with anniversaries and around other national events). At this event this event the Lodge Cheif's where invited for a Q&A that also served as survey on opinions for the National Board. Guess what they asked us about girls joining the scouting program in all aspects. What better way to get opinions from a youth ran organization by asking the youth that run it. Also many of the High Adventure Bases and Summer Camps are staffed by Venture and OA scouts so the staff is already co-ed.

Everything costs money. Scouting is not about profit but scouting needs money to run. The main way scouting brings in money is through membership. Membership has been falling way before the first political incident involving scouting. It is hard for an active organization to compete with video games, sports and other activities. It takes parents to bring the scouts to the meetings and most parents arent willing to any more when their kid can just play a video game in their room. Most of theses bigger changes is an attempt to reach more youth. Scouting could solve these issues by raising the national dues but they would loose members. Last years national dues was only around 20 bucks if i remember correctly and some of the people that need to the scouting program the most can barely afford it. Know a few units that are completely supported by donations because they are made up of low income families. Those are my favorite units to interact with at camps and events because I know those scouts are learning things that are going to help them raise up and not fail in life. I know of few scouts that seeing them walking down the street you would never think they where a scout or ever go off to college but they did and not just community college. One scout still messages me every once in awhile he went from failing and not trying in school into getting almost a full ride to Chapel Hill because the Scouting program taught him skills and showed him that you can succeed in life even though the odds are stacked against you.

Membership isn't going to sky rocket right away but over time will as it provide a great program for the youth of america just like the scouting program does in other countries. OMG there is scouting in other countries!! Yes in many others and they are all connected through the world scout movement. Come 2018 Sadi-Arabia is the only scouting movement that doesn't allow girls in all aspects of the movement.

My Opinion:
I fully support the change but it needs to be done correctly with implementing more standards for Youth Protection than venturing follows because now you are involving younger participants that don't understand certain things and cant be taught just yet.

Sorry this is long winded but this is a topic i care allot about. If you want more or have question just let me know!

I was in Scouts. Cubs and Boy Scouts. I earned my Eagle and was also an OA member. I've run the gamut. However, I went through years ago. No offense but you sound a lot like what the Girl Scouts are saying. You're looking for members and the accompanying money to operate. What you fail to see or at least neglect to mention is that the Boy Scouts have changed. It's not what it was and video games aren't to blame. I played the shit out of video games and still was in scouts till I was 18. Your content sucks and your leaders are weak. The same majority of people who were overlooked leading up to the presidential campaign are the ones that see the current situation. They don't like the new "values" and they don't like how they are being carried out. And sometimes they don't like the people who are carrying them out.

When my son comes of age to join I will absolutely be there. Mainly because I don't want his head filled with bullshit and I want to be part of his learning and enjoyment of the outdoors. If we can't find that in a troop then we'll blaze our own trail with the help of an old handbook ole dad still has.
 
^^ What he said X2!
 
I have a girl in GS and my boy will probably be in BS. I fully agree with this. Obviously, the girls want something more than cookies and crafts. Me too! I want my girl in the woods. That's one of the main reasons I bought a place at Hurricane Creek. I want my little girl to know there's more fun out there than what the TV and tablet provides.

Now this is where some may have a problem with what I say but part of the problem is that there are limited women that can teach what the Boy Scouts can. They want them to be strong leaders and capable girls but I know for a fact that my girl's leader couldn't start a fire with a can of gas and a match. So the real obstacle/challenge to me is how do you keep women in charge of the Girl Scouts and give them the skills they need to show our future lady leaders skills beyond the cookie box?



I was in Scouts. Cubs and Boy Scouts. I earned my Eagle and was also an OA member. I've run the gamut. However, I went through years ago. No offense but you sound a lot like what the Girl Scouts are saying. You're looking for members and the accompanying money to operate. What you fail to see or at least neglect to mention is that the Boy Scouts have changed. It's not what it was and video games aren't to blame. I played the shit out of video games and still was in scouts till I was 18. Your content sucks and your leaders are weak. The same majority of people who were overlooked leading up to the presidential campaign are the ones that see the current situation. They don't like the new "values" and they don't like how they are being carried out. And sometimes they don't like the people who are carrying them out.

When my son comes of age to join I will absolutely be there. Mainly because I don't want his head filled with bullshit and I want to be part of his learning and enjoyment of the outdoors. If we can't find that in a troop then we'll blaze our own trail with the help of an old handbook ole dad still has.



Cant like this enough!!!!! Instead of destroying BSA, try rebuilding GSA. I fully support girls being in the woods and learning about survival and camping and how to be a strong leader, and I agree GSA isnt doing that, SO FIX GSA!!!!!!!!!
 
So wonder if Trail Life USA & American Heritage Girls will get more members? Biggest issue they seem to have is the money and therefore land that BSA has gotten over the years.

When my son comes of age to join I will absolutely be there. Mainly because I don't want his head filled with bullshit and I want to be part of his learning and enjoyment of the outdoors. If we can't find that in a troop then we'll blaze our own trail with the help of an old handbook ole dad still has.

My thoughts exactly.
 
Id also like to add that for anyone who is looking for something like what BSA is supposed to be, look into Trail Life USA. Its a group that uses the BSA handbooks and system, but is solely Christian. BSA is failing its "duty to God and my country"
 
So wonder if Trail Life USA & American Heritage Girls will get more members? Biggest issue they seem to have is the money and therefore land that BSA has gotten over the years.



My thoughts exactly.
Beat me to it
 
I sure wouldn't want to chaperone a bunch of horny 13 year olds in a coed group on a multi day trip in the woods....

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Not to perpetuate the topic, BUT, this quote I read from another article on the subject succinctly sums it up...

One more way to indoctrinate children into believing there's no difference between boys and girls, and it's ok to be either one, both, all or none

I think that's a load of shit. This ultimately isn't any different than any co-ed sports team, etc.
Allowing a girl to pitch in little league is no different. Allowing a boy to do dance or gymnastics is no different. This is just paranoia about people's fears from gender issues that they hope don't happen to their kids.

By the way, why has no one mentioned Explorer Scouts, etc., in this context? Both me and my sister did Explorer Scouts, and it was not gender restricted. That was back in the '80s, and was part of the BSA..... Not sure if it exists any more.
 
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I think that's a load of shit. This ultimately isn't any different than any co-ed sports team, etc.
Allowing a girl to pitch in little league is no different. Allowing a boy to do dance or gymnastics is no different. This is just paranoia about people's fears from gender issues that they hope don't happen to their kids.

Ha. I'm definitely not saying a girl should pitch in litttle league! That's what softball is for. And most of my daughter's softball teammates would slaughter boys of the same age anyway. We have different genders for a reason. Inherently, men are very different than women. And women are very different than men. Women have strengths that men lack. Men have strengths that women lack. Society needs to encourage and celebrate that, not melt the genders into one.

If you lived in Asheville, you'd likely see it differently. There are kindergarteners (well their parents) fighting a school district because their son wants to be a girl. A KINDERGARTNER!!! At that age, gender identity is not a thought of by children. He's the pawn of a liberal family out to prove a sick point. This isn't about fears of gender issues. Rather it's about embracing one's gender. Boys are different than girls. Men are different than women. They have different needs and desires to become functioning men and women. But society wants to emasculate men. The feminist movement was the worst concept for women. Most women want to be treated like a lady, but with the pussification of the male, that is less likely to occur.
 
I think that's a load of shit. This ultimately isn't any different than any co-ed sports team, etc.
Allowing a girl to pitch in little league is no different. Allowing a boy to do dance or gymnastics is no different. This is just paranoia about people's fears from gender issues that they hope don't happen to their kids.
NO, its a pretty grounded concern. Look at all the nonsense that is happening now. When a 2nd grader thinks she is a he, you know that its not her talking, its the parents! Its vastly different than a co ed sports team. BSA was founded to teach boys how to be leaders and men of God. The BSA that we have now doesnt do that. The people who have kids in scouts and are against it dont want their boys to be brainwashed into thinking that they are a girl.... Pretty simple logic. Boy Scouts is for boys, Girl Scouts is for girls. Whats so hard about that?
 
By the way, why has no one mentioned Explorer Scouts, etc., in this context? Both me and my sister did Explorer Scouts, and it was not gender restricted. That was back in the '80s, and was part of the BSA..... Not sure if it exists any more.

It's still around. But it's a very differently designed program than traditional Scouting. From the website...

Exploring is a unique career exploration program for young men and women ages 10 - 20. The program provides students with an opportunity to learn about a wide variety of career fields and network with professionals already working in those fields. You get hands-on experience to determine whether or not a particular career field is right for you. You develop valuable networking contacts with professionals working in your selected career fields, and you get to know other youth with your same interests and aspirations.

That's not the same goal of Boy Scouts. That's not the same goal of Girl Scouts. The emphasis is not on becoming a man or woman. Or becoming a strong leader. It's about choosing a career.
 
It's still around. But it's a very differently designed program than traditional Scouting. From the website...

Exploring is a unique career exploration program for young men and women ages 10 - 20. The program provides students with an opportunity to learn about a wide variety of career fields and network with professionals already working in those fields. You get hands-on experience to determine whether or not a particular career field is right for you. You develop valuable networking contacts with professionals working in your selected career fields, and you get to know other youth with your same interests and aspirations.

That's not the same goal of Boy Scouts. That's not the same goal of Girl Scouts. The emphasis is not on becoming a man or woman. Or becoming a strong leader. It's about choosing a career.

That's not the same Explorer Scouts that I was in. We did camping and backpacking, and I have no idea about any of that career stuff they're talking about.

Ah, WikiPedia just told me what happened. The career branch of Explorers formally turned into Exploring, and the outdoor branch turned into Venturing. So what I did is now called Venturing instead of Explorers. That happened in '98 apparently, so a while after I stopped doing that.
 
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The people who have kids in scouts and are against it dont want their boys to be brainwashed into thinking that they are a girl.... Pretty simple logic.

That's not the slightest amount of simple logic. I fail to see how allowing girls to be part of that organization is somehow brainwashing boys into changing their gender identity.

Being around girls doesn't make you want to be a girl. If that were the case, schools would only have single-gender classes, because parents would refuse to tolerate anything else.

Somehow that logic breaks down when it's related to scouting but not to schools?
 
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I fail to see how allowing girls to be part of that organization is somehow brainwashing boys into changing their gender identity. Being around girls doesn't make you want to be a girl.


In the big picture, the left is trying to push gender fluidity down our throats. In the small picture, its about the simple facts that sending hormonal teenagers into the woods together alone is a bad idea, and that fundamentally, boys and girls need different things at different times to mature, as well as the fact that boys and girls think and process things differently. Add all this up and its pretty clear that this is just a bad idea plain and simple.
 
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