store bought SOA .02 please

i'm skeptical of it. there aren't any pics of the brackets, i'd like to see what i'm buying. especially since its completely bolt-on:

:rolleyes: "Start with our spring perches (Patent Pending).... They do NOT require welding (as other saddle style spring pads require) and are very easy for the novice to install. Our perches provide 6.5" of lift. We also provide all necessary hardware and Ubolts to mount the spring perches..."


$468 sounds really steep for:

Front and rear bolton spring pads
Ubolt skidplates
Front Extended Brake Lines
Rear Brake Line Extension
Parking Brake Extension
Front Panhard Riser kit
Drop Pitman Steering Arm
Rear Panhard Drop kit
Ubolts and hardware packs
Easy to follow installation instructions
 
Yeah I guess after the initial period of salvating over 6.5" lift wore off.. I planned on a 4" suspension and 1-2" body.. since I didnt want to fork out $2k for a SOA to be done... Or am I way off on the cost of a SOA?
 
SOA is mostly labor anyway after you get the perches, steering correction, and SYE kit and driveshaft. I don't see how bolt on would save you anything unless you are able to turn the wrenches yourself but don't have access to a welder. With the cost of labor for SOA being $2000? Man, sign me up for that. I just did a complete SOA (MORE steering and SYE) for a friend and all he bought me was a sawzall and a set of impact sockets. My advice, get with a good club and help out on other people's rigs.
 
A SOA is easy. I don't know why it would cost ya $2K for someone to do it.

Heck, drive up here and I'll help ya with it. I'll do all the welding on it for $400. All you gotta do is buy the right parts to put on.


Rob
 
I dunno.. I see a SOA as a great time to correct alot of deficiencies.. It's a great time to really make this a good long-travel, flexy setup.. also a good time to corrcet caster and add pinion angle by doing a cut & turn of the knuckles... Let's also do a shackle reversal for better approach angle, and to alleviate the front springs trying to break everytime you hit something...

All that adds up, and I had a BUNCH of money and more in time in doing my own SOA.

But if all you're after is lift, than yeah, it can be done more inexpensively.
 
Rich said:
I dunno.. I see a SOA as a great time to correct alot of deficiencies.. It's a great time to really make this a good long-travel, flexy setup.. also a good time to corrcet caster and add pinion angle by doing a cut & turn of the knuckles... Let's also do a shackle reversal for better approach angle, and to alleviate the front springs trying to break everytime you hit something...

All that adds up, and I had a BUNCH of money and more in time in doing my own SOA.

But if all you're after is lift, than yeah, it can be done more inexpensively.
Click to expand...


Uh, well, yeah of course. $2K spent on a SOA will not get the same results as the bolt on kit, I hope its substantially more. Some people don't need to cut and turn the knuckles and some don't do a shackle reversal. I think its crazy not to, but some don't and its much cheaper if you don't.

Rob
 
I agree 100% Rob.. I was just trying to explain where he might have heard the $2k figure being tossed around.

Oh, I also forgot to add in hi-steer.. That's $500+ easy, unless you drive a 'yota, then it's just under that (with a new pitman)

Don't be one of "those guys" with some :gay: z-bar drag link.. :lol:
 
what makes a shackle reversal so expensive??? isnt it just a front spring hanger and some rear shackle mounts??? give me a day to work on it leisurely, a welder and a few basic tools and consider your "shackle reversal" done... nothing some simple fab work and a little bit of measuring cant take care of....
 
it seems Rocky Road Outfitters is trying to pull the same crap they did with the Samurai market. they're reputation doesn't rank very high. they've been accused of "stealing" their link setup for the Zuk from another designer. me personally, I'd go another route.
 
Rich said:
I dunno.. I see a SOA as a great time to correct alot of deficiencies.. QUOTE]

Exactly Rich.. Thats what gets my head going in circles. Well.. since i have this or that off I might as well save time later and do this now..
Click to expand...
 
Shackle reversal and SOA is way to easy to be paying $2K for a kit. Hell, I bet you could buy a welding set-up, some steel and pay for a welding class for less than that!
 
The parts can add up.. let's see, off the top of my head...

shocks: $160-400
9/16" or 5/8" u-bolts $60 (You're not going to use that puny factory crap that hangs under the axle, are you?)
high steer $500
long travel front driveline $300
re-tube rear DS because of lift $100
cut & turn $125-200
longer, sometimes custom brake lines $100
shock mounts - $20-100+

Even if you only touch the front, it doesn't take much off the total of $1365-$1760. That doesn't include hardware, steel (want 1/2" steel for u-bolt plates, right?) or ANY labor.

Go ahead, tell me ANY of those parts (other than the C&T for SOME axles) aren't needed to do it right. Leave any of that out and it's a compromise.

Like I said, you can consider a SOA a "lift", or you can consider it a "suspension conversion", your call.

(Oh, and since you're going bigger, you'll want bigger tires, and then address the gearing in the axles to compensate for the bigger tires, and....)

I'm done.
 
I should keep my mouth shut and not get into this
I should keep my mouth shut and not get into this
I should keep my mouth shut and not get into this
I should keep my mouth shut and not get into this...

....But I don't have that kind of sense.

I see so many shade tree SOA jobs. And you always hear how easy it is and how "we knocked it out in an afternoon in the driveway".

Sure, you can get a couple sets of $19.95 perches and flip the springs in an afternoon. Total cost ??
$50 plus a couple cases of beer and a pizza or 2.

You MIGHT even *get away with it* -

But, what you don't hear is that the Jeep went home with too-short shocks or without the shocks in it, and a driveshaft that was too short, and the brake lines hanging in the breeze etc, etc, etc...

Yeah, all those "little details" can be taken care of later. But too many times they aren't addressed. Or are "jerry rigged" or or...

That is the difference in getting some friends together to do it at home and what you pay a professional shop for. (Hopefully) As a professional, shop, you CAN'T let that rig out the door with it's mess hanging in the breeze.
You have to address all those details. You can't just slap a set of perches on there and let the customer go home to deal with the rest. Not unless you want to risk your shop getting a new owner when someone has a wreck or tears up their rig on the way home.
Yeah, you can be a "good guy" and "hook someone up" with a "good deal". Or you can do the right thing and give them a turn key job.

A couple people already said - DANG bring it to me. I'll do it in a day for half of that. Bla bla bla.

First - it you spend a day on it. Let's call a day 8 hours. And let's say an average shop labor rate is $50/hr. That is $400 labor alone. If the shop is quoting the job including all parts....

How about we price some parts?
(Don't pick this apart - I know these prices can be beaten. This is just for example)

decent perches - $70 - 80
New U-Bolts & nuts $40
New centre pins $4
Extended brake lines $100
Brake fluid $5
Pitman arm? $60
Shocks $200

There is a quick $450 - 500 in parts
$400 - 500 labor
Oh, how about an alignment. $50

And this doesn't get into new driveshafts if needed or addressing existing issues with tierod ends, old crappy spring bushings, weak spring mounting etc. etc.
Like Rich said. It is a good time to address all kinds of deficiencies.

I agree $2000 for a SOA is high. But to do it correctly and allow for surprizes - if a GOOD shop quoted $1000 - 1500 for a *complete* job.
They are just covering the bases (and their A$$) by giving you the whole picture up front. Because you will spend close to that before you are all done.

A complete job, done correctly, and *safely* is not cheap.

[End Soapbox]
 
rockcity said:
A SOA is easy. I don't know why it would cost ya $2K for someone to do it.

Heck, drive up here and I'll help ya with it. I'll do all the welding on it for $400. All you gotta do is buy the right parts to put on.


Rob
Click to expand...


Uh, didn't ya read the post???


I'll do all the welding on it for $400. All you gotta do is buy the right parts to put on.

so, in the end, really, hes spendin a little less than $2K, but all I offered was to do the welding/fabrication. I am by no means saying I'll supply and do everything for $400. You'd be crazy to think that :flipoff2:


Rob
 
I have to take one thing back that I said.. I mis read something somewhere and thought I read $2K for a kit, then DIY.... My first thought was that's insane! cause I know I spent less than $2k for my SOA including new (to me) axles, gears, tires, blah, blah, blah....granted I had a well equiped shop that cost me VERY LITTLE to make use of. but to have dropped my trash off and hd someone do it for me, ya, I'll agree with Rich and Bill completly

as for my persoanl parts cost list....

36" swampers used, about $500
Scrap steel from pile of scrap.... say $50
springs... $100
Shocks... (only needed 2) $100
brake hoses $90
variuos parts like perches, shackles, hangers...... $100 (over estimated)
Front J-truck 44 with highsteer off ebay, $220,
gas to get said axle $50
Rear axle free (waggy 20, I'm glad people think it's trash...)
Gears for AMC20 and install kit... what? $200
Driveshafts reworked $80 (yes front and rear totaled there)
Gas to and from shop and shop use... estimated...$300

so ya.. with axles and gears, I'm getting up to about $1750.... I know the work I have in it, I could certainly see where having someone else do it could be QUITE A BIT MORE!!!
 
This was your bare-bones - scrounged, salvaged, & e-bayed every part you could.

Never mind the XXX hours you had in it.

A shop can't do all that salvaging and scrounging on a retail job.
If you figured out even minimum wage $$ - times the number of hours you had in salvaging steel and used parts etc...

Your time spent on your rig is your savings. To a shop - my shop time spent on your (editorial you) rig is money I have to bill for. Usually cheaper to buy new parts.

Now how much would you pay...

But wait there is more, if you order now...
 
Ok I think yall answered my question on the "ez-home install SOA" Thanks. I guess I was just looking for someone to tell me to get my head out of my ass and have it done correctly. I know I can read an installation manual and figured I could do it myself and save money, but in the end doesnt look like it would really be better or any cheaper. If I had listen to Rich last yr, my jeep would have been done by the time I got home from Iraq and would be enjoying it instead of looking at it in the driveway.
 
Here is what I have figured out for throwing under a D44HP/9" underneath my S-10 that are sitting in my garage. I am going to have about $2600-$3000 to get the axles completely ready and purchases all parts. The estimates I have gotten from a few shops are around $4500+ if I give them the axles and let them take care of the rest. Unless I can run up on some money or save that much by the end of the school year (I wish I could get it done before Christmas but oh well), then me and some of the guys are probably going to take our time at the beginning of the summer. Don't need to go crazy on the thing, but you want it to fit your needs and lose as little money on miniscule items as possible. But then again, don't just do it quick and "easy". By the way, if anyone wants to volunteer (with a building to work inside) to try and get this thing done sometime around November but before Christmas, let me know haha.
 
like I said before, bring it up here and we'll do some work on it.
You find the parts you want and I'll help with the welding/installation. I'm not much of a parts hunter unless its for my buggy, so you gotta do the leg work

this isn't my first (or second) rodeo, so I have enough experience to do what you need

Rob
 
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