Owner/builder for garage-shop build. Should I be scared?

Fabrik8 said:
Yeah, that's not fair.
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Oh don't worry, what comes around goes around. I built a house in 2019, and it ended up over budget by roughy the estimate for your shop.
 
shawn said:
This is a garage.
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You should also go into the high-effort build threads and say "This is a Jeep". Take a more inclusive approach to trivializing things.;)

It's a lot of time, effort, and money to build a nice shop/garage and then half-ass that part of it. This is also going to be my basecamp for the rest of the house remodeling, including materials storage.

The R-6 ZIP panel seems to be $50-ish each, so I can use standard ZIP and insulate with R-23 mineral wool for the same price.
That doesn't include the upcharge for the R-12 panel instead of R-6, or the downcharge for using fiberglass batts instead of mineral wool.
Just doesn't make sense, but probably very easy to install.
 
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How does the cost of

2x4 walls, r13 fiberglass in the wall, 2” poly iso outside the sheathing cost compare?

Nets r26 and isn’t a huge work around to build this way. That’s probably better insulation than what’s in the house which has higher sqft ?

Only downfall is window & door trim for the thicker overall wall.

Then it’s great to do that method, unless insulating the roof/ceiling isn’t done correctly, and you lose any potential returns there.

Or inner sheetrock/ wall surface isn’t air sealed. Not sure of you interior surfaces plan. TL:DR.

If it were mine, that’s how I would build, and then try for the most insulation I could afford in the roof/attic, as long as the space is fully HVAC.

@Fabrik8 have you read all the info on building science site for inspiration? Lsitburek is on the money.

BSI-001: The Perfect Wall
 
Mac5005 said:
How does the cost of

2x4 walls, r13 fiberglass in the wall, 2” poly iso outside the sheathing cost compare?

Nets r26 and isn’t a huge work around to build this way. That’s probably better insulation than what’s in the house which has higher sqft ?

Only downfall is window & door trim for the thicker overall wall.

Then it’s great to do that method, unless insulating the roof/ceiling isn’t done correctly, and you lose any potential returns there.

Or inner sheetrock/ wall surface isn’t air sealed. Not sure of you interior surfaces plan. TL:DR.

If it were mine, that’s how I would build, and then try for the most insulation I could afford in the roof/attic, as long as the space is fully HVAC.

@Fabrik8 have you read all the info on building science site for inspiration? Lsitburek is on the money.

BSI-001: The Perfect Wall
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Yes, I'm actually a big fan of Lstiburek's. Building science learning is a minor hobby of mine, because a lot of it is such easy common sense (except for the cost of executing it to a high standard) and cool new materials.. Makes me depressed about how bad the house actually is, but it was actually slightly better than average build quality at the time it was built in 1989.

For the garage it's a balance of cost savings and good enough insulation to make sense. If stick built, the cavity insulation would likely be done later, along with the interior drywall for budget reasons. I haven't got that far ahead yet, and don't even know if it's going to be 2x4 or 2x6. I'm really still at the "am I going to build this myself" stage, but in the context of thinking about a lot of things related to that.

It's not going to be a max-effort building science project, that's for sure.
 
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How big is your garage door?
 
shawn said:
How big is your garage door?
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Big enough to negate any benefits from good insulation on the rest of the building envelope, thus making the entire discussion very academic, if I interpret the intent of your question correctly. :D

I'll have to go look that up, I can't remember what size they are. It may change as well, because I think they were larger than I actually need. I want to say they're 8x10, which is on the large side.
 
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shawn said:
How big is your garage door?
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This solves that problem.
7E4940D0-E164-4423-B25F-4F13FB7240B5.jpeg
 
Fabrik8 said:
I'll have to go look that up, I can't remember what size they are.
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It doesn't really matter. Just assume that it's a R-5 panel about 24'x7' with the air infiltration of an equivalent size 100yo single pane wood window.

Plug that into your energy model and let me know if anything else matters.
 
@shawn is right why over insulate an area that isn’t going to be a living space. Garages don’t need to be heated all the time and it’s going to be separate from your house envelope.

You be better served doing a stud wall 2x4 or 2x6 used maximum standard batt insulation. And put money towards a better garage door/ garage door seals & weather stripping.

I think your truly over thinking what you want vs what you need and what will accurately save you money long term vs “cool” factor of using certain products


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Loganwayne said:
@shawn is right why over insulate an area that isn’t going to be a living space. Garages don’t need to be heated all the time and it’s going to be separate from your house envelope.

You be better served doing a stud wall 2x4 or 2x6 used maximum standard batt insulation. And put money towards a better garage door/ garage door seals & weather stripping
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That's the plan if I'm doing stick built; just batts and interior drywall on a 2x6 with ZIP sheathing. I'm only doing SIPs if the numbers work out, which they probably won't, and there no reason to pay a premium for them. The reason for SIPs is not because of the high R value, but that is a nice bonus. And because they don't really transmit sound, which is also nice for the neighbors at night.
 
Yeah, I'm not going to die on that hill. If the cost advantages of 2x4 make sense, including insulation, then 2x4 it is. If I get froggy I may do continuous sheet on the outside, again if it makes sense. I honestly didn't really think about it too much. The house is 2x6, so I hadn't thought about the need to do anything different with the taller continuous wall height of the garage.
Haven't locked anything in yet, because bigger fish to fry in the decision making process. Like whether I have to shrink the building or make other big changes to be able to afford it in the first place. Incremental differences in framing and insulation costs aren't going to be the make-or-break here though, honestly. I need to chop bigger money off, but yes incremental costs add up..

You guys have really good input though, and I do appreciate all of it.
 
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rockcity said:
And in all honesty, I’m using 2x4 on my house I start building this year. I haven’t seen a notable benefit of the 2x6, even on a nice custom home.
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The deeper window trim looks better.
 
jeepinmatt said:
The deeper window trim looks better.
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That’s why you 2x4 wall with 2” perimeter Rigid insulation.

Even if going crazy tall, there is a break over point to 2x4 moved to 12” OC vs 2x6 16”OC in lumber cost.

Use 2x6 depth windows, or standard windows, and frame around them with 2x and 5/4 thick trim. Gives a nice finished look without getting silly expensive.

Decent explanation of a couple options.

 
I almost persued the 2" board on my house but my number of window's made it unrealistic. It doesnt matter if your walls are r50 if you have big ol windows everywhere.
 
Mac5005 said:
That’s why you 2x4 wall with 2” perimeter Rigid insulation.

Even if going crazy tall, there is a break over point to 2x4 moved to 12” OC vs 2x6 16”OC in lumber cost.

Use 2x6 depth windows, or standard windows, and frame around them with 2x and 5/4 thick trim. Gives a nice finished look without getting silly expensive.

Decent explanation of a couple options.

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In the video, on his option 4, why would he put the peel and stick Delta vapor barrier over top of the zip panel? I don’t see the point. Wouldn’t you just use standard plywood sheathing and save some $ if you were using the Delta Vent peel and stick?
 
rockcity said:
In the video, on his option 4, why would he put the peel and stick Delta vapor barrier over top of the zip panel? I don’t see the point. Wouldn’t you just use standard plywood sheathing and save some $ if you were using the Delta Vent peel and stick?
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Probably just using whatever they had on hand for the demo, or maybe some other reason like rain protection from the Zip coating before applying the Delta Vent. Or maybe the Delta Vent sticks really well to the Zip coating.
 
Fabrik8 said:
Probably just using whatever they had on hand for the demo, or maybe some other reason like rain protection from the Zip coating before applying the Delta Vent. Or maybe the Delta Vent sticks really well to the Zip coating.
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I figured it was probably what he already had on the house since he said it was a demo on his own house under remodel.
 
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