notches in deck cantilever supports

Discussion in 'General Chit Chat' started by RatLabGuy, Nov 10, 2019.

  1. RatLabGuy

    RatLabGuy You look like a monkey and smell like one too

    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    Location:
    Churchville, MD
    My parents recently had their deck redone, and they extended it 2' past the original rim joist.
    I was quite surprised to see the guys put in these diagonal braces for the cantilever, then notched the crap out of it, presumably to give a surface to put the lower bolt in.

    Is this normal? I'm no ME, but that seems like a bad place to be notching things. IMG_20191110_165619212.jpg
     
  2. Fabrik8

    Fabrik8 Overcomplicator

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    Huntersville
    You've still got half the cross section left, it will be fine. Just stay away from edge of the deck. :D
     
  3. rockcity

    rockcity everyday is a chance to get better

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    Apr 10, 2005
    Location:
    Greenville, NC
    Aside from the notches, I see all kinds of other questionable work

    and no, that notch is not normal and is wrong. Who TF built that thing???
     
  4. kaiser715

    kaiser715 Doing hard time

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2006
    Location:
    NW Pocket, NC
    Did they actually cantilever new joists an extra 2', or just add on 2' and it's hanging off the original header/beam?

    EDIT, NEBERMIND THAT... the more I look at that pic, the more confused I get. Joists parallel to the beam, sort of? A 2x4 that looks like it's on the flat?

    On the brace, all they had to do was take a spade bit and make a flat big enough for the bolt and washer to sit flat.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
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  5. Tacoma747

    Tacoma747 Well-Known Member

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  6. Futbalfantic

    Futbalfantic Well-Known Member

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    For sure a flat 2x4 but it’s 16”oc so that should matter for the planking
     
  7. Futbalfantic

    Futbalfantic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Charlotte
    What’s weird to me. Going from close to far. #1 doesn’t have a hanger #2 does #3 does not. And why is there a hanger than to being with.
     
  8. RatLabGuy

    RatLabGuy You look like a monkey and smell like one too

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Churchville, MD
    OK just to clear up some confusion...
    - It was a complete teardown and replacement. As I understand it only the vertical posts were saved. The primary sleepers are 2' longer than they used to be.So it is a true cantilever and not just a tack on extension.
    - I think the angle may be deceiving. The joists are running up/down in this view, so they are perpendicular to the decking boards. The boards you see running left-right are the ends of the joist "boxes" that butt up against each other, thats 8' between them. As far as I can tell, its typical deck framing.
    - The flat 2x is just a spacer, I assume like a stiffener or a spreader. The outer joist spacer has them ~ every 4 ft.

    If there is something odd here, I'd love to know, but I'm not seeing it (yet). Dad is a retired ME and usually very particular about these things. I was surprised how nonchalant he was about how they cut into the diagonal supports.
     
  9. RatLabGuy

    RatLabGuy You look like a monkey and smell like one too

    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
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    Not yet, but this is the kind of thing that happens at an unknown future date....
     
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  10. a_kelley

    a_kelley mechanical fixer

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    Jan 26, 2010
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    Rutherfordton
    Why would you have to brace a cantilevered deck to begin with? Isn't the point of cantilever to not need to move or add supports? Also normally joists run perpendicular to the house, not framed boxes with joists parallel, but I have seen that done.
     
  11. RatLabGuy

    RatLabGuy You look like a monkey and smell like one too

    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    Location:
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    To be clear they didn't move or add anything. The only thing "new" here is that the deck boards are 2' longer and the boxes are a matching length.
    You are correct that the joists here are parallel to house, and personally I'd prefer perpendicular too. But, it's a wrap around deck, and the other side of the L is perpendicular, so I don't know how you could avoid that w/o having to change the decking direction which would look weird.
     
  12. a_kelley

    a_kelley mechanical fixer

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    Rutherfordton
    45* or herringbone on the corner square..
     
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  13. rockcity

    rockcity everyday is a chance to get better

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    I hear what you are saying. But, it all still looks questionable. I’d still question the contractor on it especially if he thinks notching knee braces like that is acceptable.
     
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  14. shawn

    shawn running dog lackey of the oppressor class Administrator

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    Raleigh, NC
    I see all kinds of sketchy shit in that picture. Code doesn't allow you to cantilever a 2x8 by two feet and then hang joists from it.

    Tear it down and start over
     
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  15. 87TPIYJ

    87TPIYJ Active Member

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    Location:
    Jacksonville FL
    Still trying to figure out why they are even notched? Why make the extra cuts for no reason except to weaken it?
     
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  16. Pless

    Pless Well-Known Member

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    Jul 26, 2006
    Location:
    Canton NC
    I'm guessing here, but it looks to me like they notched it to have a spot to install a lag screw?
     
  17. JSJJ388

    JSJJ388 GREEN GREMLIN

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    Typically you would just use a spade bit and make a shallow hole.
     
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  18. JSJJ388

    JSJJ388 GREEN GREMLIN

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    I'm not a carpenter, but from a structural design standpoint, I ain't coming to no cookouts on that patio lol.
     
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  19. Reid

    Reid Hasnt Seen Dirt in Years

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    are the braces purely asthetics?
     
  20. shawn

    shawn running dog lackey of the oppressor class Administrator

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    If the framing was done correctly, yes. But it's not, so who knows.
     
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  21. Fabrik8

    Fabrik8 Overcomplicator

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    Does the deck need to be permitted in your area?
     
  22. RatLabGuy

    RatLabGuy You look like a monkey and smell like one too

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    This is out on Lake Gaston, middle of nowhere. Warren County. I don't know if it's required, but my parents usually do things by the books, get permits, etc. I know they did for their garage and all the other work they've done there.
    And thats the thing, if it was permitted, it was inspected, at least in theory, and done to code, at least in theory. But, who knows. They very well may not have.
     
  23. Fabrik8

    Fabrik8 Overcomplicator

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    That's where I was going with that. An inspector may be your best friend on this, to force the contractor's hand. If it's a freestanding deck, things change I'm pretty sure as far as permitting, etc. Any way you slice it, it needs some knowledgeable eyes on it to sort it out for safety and code compliance.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
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  24. rockcity

    rockcity everyday is a chance to get better

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Location:
    Greenville, NC
    Permits or not, it looks sketchy. I’d ask the contractor for a copy of the permit. Looks like that County has permit requirements for a deck. At least they have a fee and a section in the application specific to decks/porches.

    Again, I’d ask the contractor for a copy of the permit and inspections. If he doesn’t have them, have him obtain and do it right.
     
  25. RatLabGuy

    RatLabGuy You look like a monkey and smell like one too

    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    Location:
    Churchville, MD
    So just to be clear, what exactly are the concerns? Does it all stem from having the joists running parallel to the main structure, instead of perpendicular, which then results in the outer joist being hung outboard of the cantilever? The cutting of the braces seems egregious, but seem to be mixed opinions on the necessity of them (if the joists were done properly to begin with)?
     

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