New tow pig prices

Discussion in 'Tow Rigs and Trailers' started by CasterTroy, Sep 21, 2020.

  1. CasterTroy

    CasterTroy Motarded

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    Wallburg
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  2. NickMaul

    NickMaul Well-Known Member

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    Norfolk, VA
    Lol at the example payment! That’s more than my mortgage!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  3. Chris_Keziah

    Chris_Keziah Joe Dirt @ Rev Limit Fab

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    Winston-Salem
    Hell the truck costs more than my house.

    Eventually I want to get into a 4th gen 3500 but with new truck pricing like this I'll never afford a used one.
     
  4. drkelly

    drkelly Dipstick who put two vehicles on jack stands

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    Mar 21, 2005
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    Oak Ridge/Stokesdale, NC
    :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
     
  5. UNCC-CRAWLER

    UNCC-CRAWLER Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    That price is not correct, I just built a 2020 limited and max out at $80kish, now I didn't click all the extras, like matching snakeskin boots, but did what I would want.

    I bet someone at the dealership clicked everything and got that price or inputted the incorrect price during upload.

    Also, you can get a 2015 Dodge Viper racecar for a cool $127k FYI...2015 Dodge SRT Viper GT2
     
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  6. jeepinmatt

    jeepinmatt Still Fat

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    Stanley, NC
    What ^ said. I just priced out a 5500 Limited and it was like $83k. I probably left a few grand on the table too, but I did check the box for the snakeskin boots as part of the "Real Cowboy" package at $2997. And real sales price is usually about $10k less than MSRP on trucks in that price range.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
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  7. obullfish

    obullfish Carolina Trail Blazers

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  8. YotaOnRocks

    YotaOnRocks Well-Known Member

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    Winston-Salem
    Only reason I back up in a Ram is to turn around because all the broken Super dookies have blocked the road:flipoff2::beer:
     
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  9. WARRIORWELDING

    WARRIORWELDING Owner opperator Of WarriorWelding LLC.

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    Location:
    Chillin, Hwy 64 Mocksville NC
    How many times can you rebuild "xyz" truck and still save money?
    Why hasn't this bubble burst?
    Like the other fella....my house was less.

    I cannot rationalize paying that much for a depreciating asset that I will likely wear out faster than I pay it off.
     
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  10. YotaOnRocks

    YotaOnRocks Well-Known Member

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    Winston-Salem
    I would actually like to buy a new 5500, I could really use a 12ft flatbed on our farm and my 3rd gen is not really up to the task of pulling 28k around in the hills. Unfortunately for me I didn't pay attention and ram quit producing 6spd trucks in 2017 or 2018. So I guess I'll be figuring something else out. Maybe a company will start doing custom trans swaps on the new trucks in the next couple years.
     
  11. YotaOnRocks

    YotaOnRocks Well-Known Member

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    Winston-Salem
    I think my BILs 2018 5500 was only 48000 with leather interior and plenty of fancy gadgets inside. Not bad compared to the giant bump truck prices seem to have taken since then.
     
  12. 77GreenMachine

    77GreenMachine Phillip Talton

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    Mar 30, 2010
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    Trinity, NC
    I just can’t see spending $80k or more for a truck unless it is making you money. I’m always floored by the people riding around in them not using them.

    2 of my neighbors have 2019 Dually F350s fully loaded. One pulls a camper maybe twice a year, the other pulls an enclosed once a month that a half ton could pull.

    I guess it’s all in what’s important to you and what you consider “expensive”. I’ve learned that some folks can spend $5000 as easy as I spend a $20 and not think much of it. Good for them, honestly. But my broke, simple self will keep driving junk.
     
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  13. Danger_Ranger

    Danger_Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Star NC
    I'd say about half the new 3/4 or 1 ton truck you see on the road today will only haul a few bags of groceries. Trucks are the new mini van.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
     
  14. WARRIORWELDING

    WARRIORWELDING Owner opperator Of WarriorWelding LLC.

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
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    Chillin, Hwy 64 Mocksville NC
    Can "we" say it is a result of direct inflation of the dollar bill? If so, common goods or like the current building material cost scare me a little.
    Or is my middle income quickly being watered down to getting by.
    Maybe the auto industry is as out of touch as our political system.
    Stuff like this fuels the "we gotta equal the playing field narrative." Not to try and make it all scary politics but reasonable people shrug it off and do without. When everything gets stupid everyone else either keeps pulling a home run or starts making arguments to level it out. In that crowd is the socialist wispers.

    Inflation or inflated? Either or triggers different avenues of thought for me. As the vehicles go. It is all bells and whistles. I have saw no greater performance. Technology improvements in the form of longevity or cost of opperation do not justify the leap. So we point at cost of manufacture? Profit margin? Or the market refusing to play ball?
     
  15. Bebop

    Bebop Well-Known Member

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    Nov 16, 2019
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    TN
    I can assure you the auto makers are listening to the market very carefully.
    People want more bells and whistles and are ready to pay for it. Plain and simple.

    If you remember, Ford dropped all sedans because they didn't sell.

    If people would all buy base model vehicles and tell their sales person this decision is motivated by cost and that they don't need the extra amenities, the general offer would lower to a more reasonable level.

    The "problem" is that the general public doesn't care about longevity, maintenance cost or anything else. What matters is "cool factor" and the monthly payment. Auto makers know it and play the game. And it works.



    Edit : interesting question : How many of you would like to go back to crank windows, no power locks, no cameras and radars, ... ? Could you convince your wives of the same thing ? Not many I bet.
     
  16. jeepinmatt

    jeepinmatt Still Fat

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    Location:
    Stanley, NC
    When it comes to trucks, this couldn't be further from the truth. Is 450hp and 1000ft-lbs "necessary"? No, but the usable power at 1/3 throttle and 1500rpm is fantastic for towing, and great when you're running around unloaded and just want to screw off. Having gone from a 99 gasser to an 04 diesel to an 08 diesel to a 2012 diesel, every generation has improved in leaps and bounds in every category. My next truck will probably be around a 2015-2017, and it will likely noticeably better than what I'm driving now, though at some point it does reach diminishing returns. They are smoother, quieter, ride better, have more power, better creature comforts AND still have improved payload and towing capacity, and just generally control a load better. Yes, fuel mileage has mostly stayed flat, but that is while emissions has decreased and power has increased. Now, why the heck is the same "truck" in a base model 4x4 diesel $40k, when one with the same number of components that are "fancy" is twice as much? Thats all profit and demand driven.
     
  17. 77GreenMachine

    77GreenMachine Phillip Talton

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    Location:
    Trinity, NC
    #FACTS

    Well said. Auto makers keep producing and prices keep rising cause people keep buying.

    Most of us rational folks buy a truck/car and fully intend to pay it off in a timely manner and continue driving it till it becomes problematic, and start the cycle over. However that has become the minority. I have personally watched several people at work and in personal life that buy a brand new or nearly new vehicle, pay on it for 1-2 years and then trade it on a newer model. Always focused on the monthly payment and cool factor as Frenchie said.

    I do plan to buy myself my dream truck one day, and will have all of the bells and whistles I want. However I will likely buy used with high mileage and will still plan to get my moneys worth out of that truck, much like the half million mile pile I currently drive.
     
  18. Bebop

    Bebop Well-Known Member

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    TN
    I disagree here.

    Did they progress in terms of capabilty ? Not really.
    Did they progress in terms of longevity ? Not really.

    What they progressed in is comfort. A LOT !

    Everything you said above is linked to comfort. I bet you could tow the same load you're doing with your newer truck with an old OSB with a carbed 350 and a 4 speed manual tranny. But you'd do this at 45/50mph. Just like the previous generations did.

    Since you don't want to do that and are ok to pay for the added comfort, you get a fancier/nicer/easier to drive vehicle.

    Something else to think about is the ease of troubleshooting and repair. Do you feel confident to diagnose a BCM / Can / etc related issue on the side of the road? Could you do it with an older vehicle ?

    I know I could with an older vehicle. anything past 05 (ish) became too complex (IMO) for me. I can't afford the proper diagnosing tools to troubleshoot the newer vehicles. And the learning curve that comes with it.

    So I'll keep my early gassers, "low" comfort and simplicity.

    Not to mention the lack monthly payment, but that's another topic.
     
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  19. Ron

    Ron Dum Spiro Spero Moderator

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    Location:
    Sharon, SC
    The older gen didnt have the ability capability to tow at 70, so I think its indisputable that the newer model has progressed in terms of capability.
    Longevity can be debated as well. I like simpler older vehicles myself. But the guy with the 300k mile square body is probably on transmission 2 or 3. He doesn't really care because a th400 rebuild costs $500 and you can swap it in the driveway in a couple hours.
    Its not uncommon at all for modern trucks to turn 300k on the original drivetrain. ll while being worked harder and faster than their older counter parts.

    In fact I dont really think its arguable that the new stiff has improved in terms of longevity. What makes that more clouded in our thinking, is due to the complexity that you mentioned - when the newer stuff does break it leaves a hole in your wallet.
     
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  20. Bebop

    Bebop Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    TN
    Then I guess I need to define what I meant by capability better.

    Is you truck capable of moving a load from point A to point B ?

    If yes, it's capable of doing it. Doing so at 70 is "nice", but it's not necessary.

    By longevity, I didn't mean how reliable it is (which is what you understood I think), rather how easily will it be for a person in the future to find the parts to maintain it. I'll use your example of the transmission. A TH400 rebuild cost $500 and the parts will still be available for years and years to come. Do you think you'll be able to buy the parts to rebuild a 8sp trans in 25 years? What about all the plastic pieces that are everywhere in the new vehicles?

    Auto manufacturers are shortening the planned service life of the vehicles they make. They will not produce spare parts for a long time like it used to be the case. What happens when you want to buy a part that isn't available anymore ? Think about phones. Where do you find parts for an older iphone 3 ? It's impossible because they were practically whipped off the surface of the earth. Automakers are following the same model for cars. They are becoming a new "gadget" a new "cool thing" that you keep for a few years, trade-in and get the new shit. Their life cycle is and will be significantly reduced and there will be no provision for long term ownership.

    Think about what will happen when all cars (or most of them) are electric and you can't find any battery for it after 20 years of ownership ? The tech will have evolved, new battery types will be on the market and no one will make shit for your old dinosaur. Doesn't matter if you kept it in cherry condition, you'll have to get rig of it.

    Fuck, you're already having to pay a monthly charge to enable fast charging in electric cars TODAY. Not as an option that gives you the hardware when you buy the car, nope, it's becoming a "feature" that you have to subscribe to. What happens when the auto maker decides that they don't support your car model because it's too old. You're fucked. Just like laptops, washing machines etc.

    My 2cts of course, but I've been in the industry for a bit now, working as an engineer for several manufacturers and this is what I see. And people like this direction we are headed in BTW.
     
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  21. Bebop

    Bebop Well-Known Member

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    FYI, the company I work for just launched their first EV car in the US market today.
    My office is filled with engineers discussing about the design of the new wheels, how many functions the intelligent screen that is embedded in the center console can do, the color combos etc...

    No one gives a flying shit about the mechanical details and the longevity. And this is coming from the engineers that designed the vehicle. They are already talking about the next one and how it'll be even better than this one. So I'm not expecting the general public to want anything different.
     
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  22. jeepinmatt

    jeepinmatt Still Fat

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    Location:
    Stanley, NC
    They progressed into the ability to comfortably and competent handle the loads. They stop better, they sway less, the frame flexes less, the turning radius is tighter, the engine doesn't have to scream at 5k rpm because it took a granny gear and a 4.88+ rearend to get things moving. The shocks are properly tuned for the heavier loads.
    But the majority of this is not true for trucks. We are talking "tow pigs" here. Yes, there are plastic things and infotainment systems. But my 265k mile 2012 F250 is a great example of how durable the darn things are.

    Tow 15k pounds regularly with your TH400 even at 50mph, and you are probably gonna burn up the engine, tranny, and Dana 60 rearend. The new trucks are capable of pulling 25-30k pounds, funneling through 1000ft-lbs instead of 350ft-lbs, and doing it reliably for 300-400k miles (and even then, these failures are often a byproduct of the emission systems, not the "real" mechanicals). I'm not talking about the infotainment systems, I'm talking mechanical components. Dana 110 or 135 rearends instead of Dana 70 on the heavy duallies is just one example. 15"+ diameter rotors with 2 or 3 times the swept area and 4 pistons on each caliper instead of 1 on your TH400 equipped 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. Thicker axle tubes, thicker, taller frames, etc. Pretty much every HD light duty truck :)has to run at least an 18" wheel to fit the rotors these days. 2.5" or even 3" receiver hitches. Massive amounts of surface area on the radiators and intercoolers and oil coolers and tranny coolers. And yes, all that leads to complexity that can lead to more problems, but the increases in quality control have made tremendous progress for reliability. Even for the electrical and electronic crap.
     
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  23. Van-go

    Van-go Not an old man

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    Dec 11, 2014
    Location:
    Greensboro
    @jeepinmatt likes the bells & whistles. He didn’t want my dually cause I didn’t have heated or cooled seats. That’s the reason prices keep climbing! All in the name of preventing swamp ass.
    But hey, if I was an old man I would probably want fancy things too :flipoff2:
     
  24. Bebop

    Bebop Well-Known Member

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    Nov 16, 2019
    Location:
    TN
    2012 is not old. It's 8 years old. You missed my point on the durable vs reliable.

    But I agree with all the rest of the points you made. I just don't see trucks and cars evolving differently in the future, and when you can't find parts for a vehicle, you're screwed.
     
  25. Van-go

    Van-go Not an old man

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    Dec 11, 2014
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    Greensboro
    This can haul as much as an old clapped out f350...
     

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