drkelly
Dipstick who put two vehicles on jack stands
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2005
- Location
- Oak Ridge/Stokesdale, NC
Skip the D60 rear and use a 14 bolt FF.
My First Jeep CJ
- Thread starter Creekin
- Start date
rodney eppes
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2010
- Location
- Mt.Holly NC 28120
Wow, I was Wondering How I missed you, until i read about all your troubles! Sorry you didn't get connected with us!
The D60,with the 16 spline shafts, might not be any stronger than a 44.
As for my CJ, I ran the AMC20, with 1 piece Moser axles & a Detriot locker, for 25 + years, & 33s. Factory gearing of 3.54. Other than a couple axle bearings & seals, nothing ever done or broke. Same for the original D30, open. After a carrier problem, I had the side gears welded, & ran it another 5-7 years. I went to 44s when I got to where I wanted 35s, which required the 4.56 gears. And with the 35s, I had to Boost up the brakes, & my steering is pushing it's limit!
You know the saying, "for every action, there is another action, & another, & another $$$$ Keep it Simple !
The D60,with the 16 spline shafts, might not be any stronger than a 44.
As for my CJ, I ran the AMC20, with 1 piece Moser axles & a Detriot locker, for 25 + years, & 33s. Factory gearing of 3.54. Other than a couple axle bearings & seals, nothing ever done or broke. Same for the original D30, open. After a carrier problem, I had the side gears welded, & ran it another 5-7 years. I went to 44s when I got to where I wanted 35s, which required the 4.56 gears. And with the 35s, I had to Boost up the brakes, & my steering is pushing it's limit!
You know the saying, "for every action, there is another action, & another, & another $$$$ Keep it Simple !
Scooter402
Ruffling feathers and shaking trees
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2009
- Location
- Livin in an Amish Paradise
We used these Nord-Lock washers extensively at my previous employer. I can tell you first hand that these things GRIP. They take more torque to break away the fastener than they do while tightening. I know it sounds weird to say, but it's true.
After reviewing the options again for axles, looks like its going to be the Scout Dana 44's.
On 33's, IMHO, Dana 44's should be OK. I am not looking to go way crazy on the trails.
60's are really nice, but I would have to go away from 15 inch wheels (5x5.5) and then purchase new rims and tires for both off road and on road.
At this time... just cannot justify two new sets of wheels and tires.
Anyway, here are my thoughts...
Hopefully, more will be known when we take apart the 44's
If anyone has a some extra 44 parts laying around, please send me a note.
On 33's, IMHO, Dana 44's should be OK. I am not looking to go way crazy on the trails.
60's are really nice, but I would have to go away from 15 inch wheels (5x5.5) and then purchase new rims and tires for both off road and on road.
At this time... just cannot justify two new sets of wheels and tires.
Anyway, here are my thoughts...
- SOA
- New Lift Springs from a YJ or similar
- Manual Ox lockers in the front and rear (the cable option seems cool)
- Turning the C's to about 6-7 degrees of caster
- Replacing the diffs' yokes, Maybe 1330 or 1350?
- Disk brakes in the back
- Possibly adding trusses to the axles.
- Possibly adding chromoly axles
- Possibly making it high steer
Hopefully, more will be known when we take apart the 44's
If anyone has a some extra 44 parts laying around, please send me a note.
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Work on the CJ has been slow.
I am guilty of letting my professional obligations interfere with my off-road activities...
Anyway, I wanted to figure out how the bad the front axle was.
The passenger side axle is broken.
The drivers side was the only drive working, but it was making load clanking noises (i.e., a one wheel drive CJ).
The front axle had stayed together long enough to make it on and off the trailer and had enough to make it into the garage.
Well, time to test it to failure. A short trip around the back yard, and the wheel assembly fell off.
A tractor is great tool to use to lift up the front of a broke CJ and put it back into the garage.
Once in the garage, a quick disassembly revealed the truth.
Again, we were really luck to make it out.
I am guilty of letting my professional obligations interfere with my off-road activities...
Anyway, I wanted to figure out how the bad the front axle was.
The passenger side axle is broken.
The drivers side was the only drive working, but it was making load clanking noises (i.e., a one wheel drive CJ).
The front axle had stayed together long enough to make it on and off the trailer and had enough to make it into the garage.
Well, time to test it to failure. A short trip around the back yard, and the wheel assembly fell off.
A tractor is great tool to use to lift up the front of a broke CJ and put it back into the garage.
Once in the garage, a quick disassembly revealed the truth.
Again, we were really luck to make it out.
Jason helped take apart the front axle of the Scout.
It was discovered that the knuckles have an 8 stud pattern and Scout of course those knuckles do not have a flat top for high steer.
Also, the brake caliper bracket is 8 stud pattern
Since one of the goals was to have a high steer system, time to go looking for parts.
Shopping around this site revealed a set of TRE flat top 6 stud knuckles at a great deal (Thx Will)
Well... now to figure out the braking system.
Picked up a parts Dana 44 from a 1980 Chief Cherokee from NC-V (Thx NC-V)
NC-V helped me take apart the Dana 44 and stuff it to the back of the Mustang (long story...)
Now for the plan (as with most plans, there will be change). I hope to use to following:
Also, here is a picture of spindles.
From left to right, Chief Spindles, CJ Spindles, Scout Spindles (8 stud).
The Chief and CJ spindles will fit onto the TRE knuckles. The Chief spindles are longer and designed for a different locking hub assembly.
Also, the CJ rotor is thinner than the Chief rotor as shown below:
The Chief stuff is on the left and the CJ stuff is on the right.
I am sure there are other ways to do this. I'm trying to use what I have and save $ where I can.
It was discovered that the knuckles have an 8 stud pattern and Scout of course those knuckles do not have a flat top for high steer.
Also, the brake caliper bracket is 8 stud pattern
Since one of the goals was to have a high steer system, time to go looking for parts.
Shopping around this site revealed a set of TRE flat top 6 stud knuckles at a great deal (Thx Will)
Well... now to figure out the braking system.
Picked up a parts Dana 44 from a 1980 Chief Cherokee from NC-V (Thx NC-V)
NC-V helped me take apart the Dana 44 and stuff it to the back of the Mustang (long story...)
Now for the plan (as with most plans, there will be change). I hope to use to following:
- The 6 stud TRE High Steer system
- The 6 stud disc brake adapter from the Chief Cherokee.
- New 5x5.5 brake rotors that are for a Scout II
- Rebuilt Calipers from a Chief Cherokee
- The spindle from the CJ
- The 5x5.5 outer hub assembly from the Scout
- The Warn 6 bolt locking hubs from the Scout.
- New wheel bearings and seals.
Also, here is a picture of spindles.
From left to right, Chief Spindles, CJ Spindles, Scout Spindles (8 stud).
The Chief and CJ spindles will fit onto the TRE knuckles. The Chief spindles are longer and designed for a different locking hub assembly.
Also, the CJ rotor is thinner than the Chief rotor as shown below:
The Chief stuff is on the left and the CJ stuff is on the right.
I am sure there are other ways to do this. I'm trying to use what I have and save $ where I can.
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rodney eppes
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2010
- Location
- Mt.Holly NC 28120
I'm a little lost on all your doing, & little knowledge of what fits what,>Jeep/Ford/Chevy/Dodge.
I might have already said, but I'm running a cut down Wagoneer front [44], with the CJ D 30 outers, as to keep the 5 lug pattern.
I might have already said, but I'm running a cut down Wagoneer front [44], with the CJ D 30 outers, as to keep the 5 lug pattern.
Here is the front wheel assembly built up using the TRE knuckles and then the old parts as detailed above.
Now its time to order some more parts (new rotors, calipers, bearings, etc) and clean up some of the old parts that will be used (brake bracket, wheel hubs, etc.)
Now its time to order some more parts (new rotors, calipers, bearings, etc) and clean up some of the old parts that will be used (brake bracket, wheel hubs, etc.)
rodney eppes
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2010
- Location
- Mt.Holly NC 28120
If you have the need Goggle "IH Parts" & or Scout parts. A few sites, but they cater to the IH Scout parts.
Looking into why the front wheel came off.
After review, the stock wheel studs on the CJ front axle allowed for only four threads to engage. The rear allowed for nine threads to engage.
Below a pictures of the front and what the wheel studs s looked like.
To solve the problem in the front, the Dana 44's will need longer wheel studs than the stock ones that came on the Scout, which is shown below:
The trick is finding one where the kurl is in the correct spot and has a flange part next to the head for the wheel stud. The flange is for the rotor to sit.
Search around on the Dorman website revealed the following data:
The parts store up the road four of the part number 98245.1
The picture above shows the old wheel stud and some of the new ones.
One concern was the distance from the short length as it was going to be protruding past the hub as shown below:
The part that is sticking above the wheel stud is a good thing (IMHO) as that part easily goes into the holes in the wheel.
Here is what the back of the wheel looks like with the hub, front caliper, and the rotor. Everything fits well.
The new wheel studs from the front side is shown below:
All was good except the locking hub does not fit with the chrome wheel accent piece in the center.
Here is the finish assembly
Before, there was 4 only for threads holding on the front wheel per wheel stud
Now there are 14 threads per wheel stud holding on the front tire.
Hopefully, no more tires coming off when wheeling...
After review, the stock wheel studs on the CJ front axle allowed for only four threads to engage. The rear allowed for nine threads to engage.
Below a pictures of the front and what the wheel studs s looked like.
To solve the problem in the front, the Dana 44's will need longer wheel studs than the stock ones that came on the Scout, which is shown below:
The trick is finding one where the kurl is in the correct spot and has a flange part next to the head for the wheel stud. The flange is for the rotor to sit.
Search around on the Dorman website revealed the following data:
The parts store up the road four of the part number 98245.1
The picture above shows the old wheel stud and some of the new ones.
One concern was the distance from the short length as it was going to be protruding past the hub as shown below:
The part that is sticking above the wheel stud is a good thing (IMHO) as that part easily goes into the holes in the wheel.
Here is what the back of the wheel looks like with the hub, front caliper, and the rotor. Everything fits well.
The new wheel studs from the front side is shown below:
All was good except the locking hub does not fit with the chrome wheel accent piece in the center.
Here is the finish assembly
Before, there was 4 only for threads holding on the front wheel per wheel stud
Now there are 14 threads per wheel stud holding on the front tire.
Hopefully, no more tires coming off when wheeling...
From what I have been told, one must use Rubicon Express (RE) bushings on the RE SOA leaf springs.
Since the old springs had new bushings that were installed a couple of months back, why not reuse them?
I pressed the bushings out of the old springs.
Looks like they would work... not sure though.
Any ideas?
Or do I have to order the $$ from RE?
Since the old springs had new bushings that were installed a couple of months back, why not reuse them?
I pressed the bushings out of the old springs.
Looks like they would work... not sure though.
Any ideas?
Or do I have to order the $$ from RE?
Parts are starting to come in...
One of the items on the list for the Dana 20 xfer case was the dual shifters.
Started to install them. One item I will need a floorboard cover that fits both the gear box and the xfer case.
Anyone have an extra one three hole cover like the one shown below.
The old two hole one is in good condition if someone needs one.
One of the items on the list for the Dana 20 xfer case was the dual shifters.
Started to install them. One item I will need a floorboard cover that fits both the gear box and the xfer case.
Anyone have an extra one three hole cover like the one shown below.
The old two hole one is in good condition if someone needs one.
rodney eppes
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2010
- Location
- Mt.Holly NC 28120
The one I installed, [ Don Custer Special!] fit the same hole. I Did buy a 2-hole boot, & maybe slightly trimmed 1 side of the hold down ring, but it all fit the Factory hole just fine! Btw, I used the rounded boot, like in your kit.
barton
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2013
- Location
- lincolnton
If you get j10 axles the rear will have a offset rear differential. It might work with the t18, I have one that P.O said it was geared 4:10 it’s for sale if you want it. It is a Dana 44
The axle's spring perches have 3 sets of holes to mate up with the springs.
Was thinking of using the middle perches for both the front and the rear.
Heard it can be advantageous to move the rear axle towards the back of the Jeep.
Thoughts on moving the rear axle ~3/4" towards the back of the CJ using the one of the other two sets of holes on the spring perches?
Was thinking of using the middle perches for both the front and the rear.
Heard it can be advantageous to move the rear axle towards the back of the Jeep.
Thoughts on moving the rear axle ~3/4" towards the back of the CJ using the one of the other two sets of holes on the spring perches?
rodney eppes
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2010
- Location
- Mt.Holly NC 28120
When my axles were installed, we went 1/2" forward on the front & 1/2" reward on the rear. That was the amount of hole offset we had. I knew I was going with 35" tires too, & needed all I could get. I don't for see any problem moving the rear back 3/4". The more you move the front out, the more you might have problems with the pitman arm.
drkelly
Dipstick who put two vehicles on jack stands
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2005
- Location
- Oak Ridge/Stokesdale, NC
I ran YJ springs on my Samurai, and had 1" offset holes in the spring perches. I moved the front axle forward, and the rear axle rearward.
WARRIORWELDING
Owner opperator Of WarriorWelding LLC.
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2008
- Location
- Chillin, Hwy 64 Mocksville NC
With the over stock Shackle you are going to run the small change in Axle placement will aid slightly in re-centering the wheel in the wheel well. Both are minimal changes and hard pressed to make huge visual impacts. Just like the gained 1.5 inches of wheel base....nothing dramatic.