My First Jeep CJ

My 79 was a Narrow track. I Finally settled on using the Scout width, & Super happy with it! Running the Scout rear, But it has an odd-ball axle bearing, that keep you from doing a "hat style" disc brake swap. For the front, my Man, cut down a Waggy front, & with wheel spacers, matched the Scout width. That was a good amount of work, plus I still have to run the Dana 30 outers, to have the 5 lug. Waggy's are 6 lug! On the Scout front, you have to OutBoard the springs, & as 89wrangler said, rotate the knuckles! Maybe a front & rear waggy would work for you, if the front diff drop is correct, & just run the 6 lug. Other options are other 44 combinations, or ford 9" rear / front 30/44. Move SLOWLY on the drivetrain, until your Positive! You can get some good reviews at Pott's!
 
Ok... Looks like waggy axles are the way to go.
What about narrowing the axles to scout width and using the scout 4.09 gears and the axles?
Read where some did something similar.
 
a6464538ace74569bb2567243224f375.png


Spend some time on Craigslist. It may be possible to change the gears out but after that I wouldn’t waste my time trying to make scout stuff fit in jeep axles.
@Jody Treadway would know if they are able to be swapped


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I missed what year CJ was, can’t really tell from the pics if the roll bar is 76-79 on the fenders or 80-86 roll bar mounted to floor, with front lap belts. I thought the V8 was last offered in 79, but I think I see an 80+ rectangular fuel filler hole.

There are 2 different width axles used on CJ-7s, narrow track til 81 I think, then widetrack from 82-86. In my 77, I used widetracks from 4-cylinder, that gave me 4.10 gearing, then used the larger front disc brakes and premium lockout hubs, and bigger rear drums from my 77. The weak link, as you also found, is the AMC20s tendency to bend, gotta truss it. The bend in my first widetrack AMC20 was visible to the naked eye.
 
RenegadeT said:
I missed what year CJ was, can’t really tell from the pics if the roll bar is 76-79 on the fenders or 80-86 roll bar mounted to floor, with front lap belts. I thought the V8 was last offered in 79, but I think I see an 80+ rectangular fuel filler hole.

There are 2 different width axles used on CJ-7s, narrow track til 81 I think, then widetrack from 82-86. In my 77, I used widetracks from 4-cylinder, that gave me 4.10 gearing, then used the larger front disc brakes and premium lockout hubs, and bigger rear drums from my 77. The weak link, as you also found, is the AMC20s tendency to bend, gotta truss it. The bend in my first widetrack AMC20 was visible to the naked eye.
Click to expand...
I'm thinking he said, 83, so it should be wide track. Would a narrow track Wagoneer, be any wider? Would the front
diff drop be correct [passenger side]? 4.09 should swap, but I'm no gear man. There are some different 44s. Somehow, I ran the AMC 20, for 30 years, & it never bent. Was narrow track, which would help. Later on down the road, if you do the 4.09, you'll be looking into a Tera-Low 3.15x1, transfer gears, or a low set from a Bronco.
 
My bad, should have provide more details...
It is an 83 CJ with a ~1975 304 motor.
Currently, the rear axle is an AMC 20 with solid axle (I think) and the front is an Dana 30 with 6 bolt hubs (i.e., wide CJ axles)

There is so much information out there regarding Dana 44's. Some good, some not so good. Some Dana 44's came with passenger drop, some came with SOA.

Really don't want to make the axles too wide. I like the current CJ axle width (~54" WMS) or the Scout axle width (58 WMS) using a 5 x 5.5 bolt pattern (too cheap to buy new rims).
Some post show ways to shorten various Dana 44's to Scout width axles and making 6 lug axles into 5 x 5.5 axles.

Going forward,
For the front, thoughts on
  • Finding a Dana 44 (not sure which one now)
  • Going with SOA
  • Keeping 5x5.5
  • Maybe going with a high steer system
  • Passenger drop
  • Fixing the caster to 5-7 degrees
  • Pinion angle about 10 - 13 degrees to run 33's on the train and 35's on the street
  • Staying with a 54" - 58" WMS.
Jeep will need to be somewhat streetable and used for moderate trails.

Another option would be to find a rear Dana 44 from an 86 CJ and beef up the Dana 30.

Anyway, thanks for all the help trying to upgrade the axles.
 
Sounds like a 86 CJ 44 would fit your needs nicely, but good luck finding one. Another option that might be worth looking into is a 8.8 paired with a matching width D30. The upside is you can find 8.8 with 4.10 gears and disc brakes. Down side is the bolt pattern would be 5x4.5.
 
I've always thought a pair of toyota axles would work well in cj. Close in width, cheap, with decent brake options. Plus its easy to find an elocker for the rear which is nice in such a short wheelbase rig.

The down side is it would take a little fab work and there 6 lug, but 6 lug wheels are easy to find.
 
You can take a Chevy Dana 44 and run Ford D44 outters to make it 5x5.5
But wheels are $50ea to your door from Summit and many other places so I wouldn’t let the bolt pattern stop you from axles you can get a deal on.
 
Go with the Wagoneer axles since they are an easy swap. I don't understand why you are concerned about width. Wider is better for off camber situations. YJ's, TJ', and XJ's, are all about 60". Waggy axles are about 58-59" IIRC. New wheels can be found on this site easily.
 
X2 on wider is better. I like to keep a rig wide and low.
 
Thx for the inputs.
My goal is to have a mild lifted CJ with a little wider axles. Kind of keeping a basic stock look to the Jeep with a little bigger tires
As Jason says, with a relatively narrow CJ, the Jeep will be able to go between some obstacles where he and his rig has to go over them (I'm sure that's big fun).
Maybe one day, I will be building a purpose built buggy for the crazy stuff.

Looks like I have a bunch more research to do on the axles.
 
Being narrower does give you more options on picking lines on the trail. I might get eleventy billion negative internet points for suggesting this, but what if you ran the scout rear and put wheel spacers on the CJ front? If nothing else, it solves your rear axle problem while you figure out a better alternative for the front.
 
On another topic.
The Jeep came with a soft top, but its summer, so time for a bikini top.
After the top came in, it was noticed that the center windshield support was missing...

Finally, a simple thing that I could make. A quick trip to HD for some aluminum round stock, a couple SS 12x24 screws, and a couple of aluminum spacers and we have:

Top Bar2.jpg Top Bar.jpg

Now to test it and drive the ski lake:

Bikini Top.jpg

Yea, I know... it was simple, but sometimes you just need success with a simple project to keep you going.
 
And now for a couple of maintenance items.
The temperature sensor on the dash was not working. Turnout to be a sensor issue, so I swapped it with the one with on the 360.

After installing new shocks, it was noted that one of the 6 bolts that hold on the drivers locking hub was missing. The rest were loose.

Hub 1.jpg


A little research revealed that these bolts are notorious for coming loose.
Interesting thing about bolts and how they come loose can be found by googling
"Nord-Lock Wedge-Locking Washers - Junker Vibration Test" which is done in accordance with DIN 65151 standard

The video of a Junkers test shows how properly fastened bolts can come loose in ~30 seconds even if nylocks, spring washers, lock washers, double nuts etc are used.
Here is a picture of it works

Nord Lock.jpg Nord Lock 2.jpg

I'm going to find 12 of these an try them. For Potts, I will just have to bring a socket and a ratchet to tighten the bolts to check things on the trail
 
Creekin said:
And now for a couple of maintenance items.
The temperature sensor on the dash was not working. Turnout to be a sensor issue, so I swapped it with the one with on the 360.

After installing new shocks, it was noted that one of the 6 bolts that hold on the drivers locking hub was missing. The rest were loose.

View attachment 271814


A little research revealed that these bolts are notorious for coming loose.
Interesting thing about bolts and how they come loose can be found by googling
"Nord-Lock Wedge-Locking Washers - Junker Vibration Test" which is done in accordance with DIN 65151 standard

The video of a Junkers test shows how properly fastened bolts can come loose in ~30 seconds even if nylocks, spring washers, lock washers, double nuts etc are used.
Here is a picture of it works

View attachment 271815 View attachment 271816

I'm going to find 12 of these an try them. For Potts, I will just have to bring a socket and a ratchet to tighten the bolts to check things on the trail
Click to expand...
I'll just say, LOCKTITE!
 
I agree, Locktite is a very good option when the fasteners are clean, dry, and oil free.
Often stuff on Jeeps are not clean, dry, & oil free. Cleaning the threads inside the hub can be a pain.
 
One thing I learned from riding around in Uwharrie Park was the CJ needed new seats and new harnesses.
Besides the old seats being warn out and uncomfortable , they did not hold you well when bouncing around in the Jeep.
I was sure the 3 point harness were well past their useful life expectancy.

One of the guys at Uwharrie had a set of Corbeau seats in his CJ. Something called suspension seats. Needed to find out more about suspension seats.
Looking on line, Corbeau has several options for suspension seats. A quick trip to a local store in Charlotte to look at the Corbeau they had in stock.
The store had the reclining Baja XRS and the non-reclining Baja XP. Both seats were very comfortable.
The Baja XP definitely would hold you in the seat better when bouncing around.
One nice thing about the XP and the XRS is they have a relatively large opening for the shoulder harness.
The opening help to maintain the proper angle between the person sitting in the seat and the harness bar.

After reading some more stuff online, the XP's were the ones for me, so I order a set from their online store.
In about a week, the UPS guy drops off the seats.

The XP's have four vertical taps for securing the seats to your vehicle of choice, in my case, a CJ.
The drives XP will have to slide so that my wife can drive it (some of the rational of how the CJ is an "Us" thing).
After removing the old seats and the old sliders, how to attach the sliders to the seats?

Seats (1).JPG Seats (3).JPG

Looks like its time for some steel and a welder.

Finding some flat stock and angle iron some adapters were made.
I am sure there is a better way to make the adapters, but this was my attempt.

Seats (4).JPG Seats (5).JPG Seats (7).JPG

With the adapters made, now I could bolt the sliders to the adapters.
Then the drivers seat could be mounted to the existing drivers seat pedestal

Seats (12) M.JPG

Great to have the drivers seat in the Jeep, but there was a problem. The seat was about 2 inches too tall.
So out comes the side grinder, cutoff wheels, and more welding...

Seat Bracket (2).JPG Seat Bracket (1).JPG

Cutting the bracket 2" and then welding them back up took way too much time.
However, the final result was well worth it.

IMG_1871.JPG

Now onto the passenger side and then to Potts Trail.
 
Last edited:
Creekin said:
One thing I learned from riding around in Uwharrie Park was the CJ needed new seats and new harnesses.
Besides the old seats being warn out and uncomfortable , they did not hold you well when bouncing around in the Jeep.
I was sure the 3 point harness were well past their useful life expectancy.

One of the guys at Uwharrie had a set of Corbeau seats in his CJ. Something called suspension seats. Needed to find out more about suspension seats.
Looking on line, Corbeau has several options for suspension seats. A quick trip to a local store in Charlotte to look at the Corbeau they had in stock.
The store had the reclining Baja XRS and the non-reclining Baja XP. Both seats were very comfortable.
The Baja XP definitely would hold you in the seat better when bouncing around.
One nice thing about the XP and the XRS is they have a relatively large opening for the shoulder harness.
The opening help to maintain the proper angle between the person sitting in the seat and the harness bar.

After reading some more stuff online, the XP's were the ones for me, so I order a set from their online store.
In about a week, the UPS guy drops off the seats.

The XP's have four vertical taps for securing the seats to your vehicle of choice, in my case, a CJ.
The drives XP will have to slide so that my wife can drive it (some of the rational of how the CJ is an "Us" thing).
After removing the old seats and the old sliders, how to attach the sliders to the seats?

View attachment 272070 View attachment 272071

Looks like its time for some steel and a welder.

Finding some flat stock and angle iron some adapters were made.
I am sure there is a better way to make the adapters, but this was my attempt.

View attachment 272072 View attachment 272074 View attachment 272073

With the adapters made, now I could bolt the sliders to the adapters.
Then the drivers seat could be mounted to the existing drivers seat pedestal

View attachment 272076

Great to have the drivers seat in the Jeep, but there was a problem. The seat was about 2 inches too tall.
So out comes the side grinder, cutoff wheels, and more welding...

View attachment 272085 View attachment 272084

Cutting the bracket 2" and then welding them back up took way too much time.
However, the final result was well worth it.

View attachment 272086

Now onto the passenger side and then to Potts Trail.
Click to expand...
That's all cool, but wish you'd had come back to NC4x4 for advice! We could have offered plenty, & seats come up here often, for sale.
 
Rodney,
Thx for the reply...
Building on what you and other were kind enough to post (and what happened at Potts, more on this later), IMHO, I'm thinking of going to a Dana 60 setup instead of a Dana 44.

I have a Dana 60 rear with 16 splines (may from an old Ford truck???) that needs to be gone through. Anyway I will be needing a Dana 60 front with passenger drop (maybe from a chevy truck?). If someone has a Dana 60 for the rear that they have laying around that is ready go, I might be interested in it too.

Now if I am going down the wrong rabbit hole with a Dana 60 for this CJ, please let me know. I just want the axle system to be reliable on the trail.

Any and all help locating parts and of course any advice is great appreciated.
 
Now for the Potts story.

My son & I were working late to get the Jeep ready, installing the seats, harness, etc.
We put the trail tires on around midnight and wrapped up a few more details.
Around 5 AM, we load the Jeep and get are a little late leaving for Potts.
My buddy who was going to show us around has a family issue and cannot make it to Potts.
Ok, we have google maps, we can find this place.
Well we get there and cannot locate the group. Of course no cell phone coverage.
We find a sign for Jeep parking and a Jeep trail sign. After scouting the parking lot, we realize there is no way to get our rig in there.
However, some Jeeps show up and tell us about the camp ground to park the rig.
By time we get off loaded the CJ in the campground, everyone has left.
No problem, we should be able to catch up (famous last words)

Hop in the Jeep and off we go...
The new seats and harnesses were great.
Cross the first creek and then a hard right. All is good.
First major climb, front left tire comes off.
Bummer.
Walk back down the trail, find 4 lug nuts and then get the spare off the Jeep.
Get out the high jack, tie off the front of the jeep to tree using the winch (Glad that was fixed the week earlier).

Potts (2).JPG

Spare is on, lets try this climb again.
Hmmm... What that noise?
Fronts OK, Oops, the rear drive shaft should not be loose. Broken rear u-joint.
Back the CJ to a level area and remove the rear shaft.

Potts (3).JPG

Front wheels are the only driving force, but we should be OK to get out. Still have to cross the creek though.

Get to the creek, scout out a path.
Of course the creek crossing had to be video documented

Potts (1).jpg

Made it to through the creek and and on the exit, a bunch of sparks and clanking sounds from the front axle.
A little more winching, and we got it out of the creek bank.
Just enough left in the front end to limp it to the road, back to the camp ground, and onto the trailer.
Yes, I know there was a bunch of stuff done wrong here, but we are learning.

And when your kid says, "Dad, I know today was kind of crazy, but I had a really great time", well that is priceless.
 
Before you decide to jump to 60s decide what size tire your going to run. You really need 37s or bigger some will say 39s to get the same clearance as Dana 44s and 35-36s. If you plan to max this Jeeps tire size at 35s I would not go to tons. A set of 44s with good parts will be just fine.

For reference I build a Dana 30 for my xj and ran it for several years without problems till I really started pushing the limits of jeep and axles under it.


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I agree with loganwayne. Sounds like you’re just working out the kinks on a new-to-you rig. You found a few weak spots. They were broken already or on the verge of breaking, you just didn’t know yet. Fix up the broken bits and try again. As you gradually wheel harder and harder stuff, more parts break and are repaired. Eventually you end up with a series of fun trips and a reliable rig! At least that’s the way it works in my mind...
 
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