Moving 'fifth wheel' trailer around?

Discussion in 'Tow Rigs and Trailers' started by SHINTON, Oct 23, 2019.

  1. SHINTON

    SHINTON Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Location:
    Triad area of NC
    Ok, thinking about buying a car hauler type trailer, pulls 3-4 cars or so, and it is a "fifth wheel" type trailer (Pics below) I think this means it normally uses a ball, mounted in your bed of truck over your axle, on a dually, etc.

    What I am wanting to do is just MOVE the trailer by itself around as needed and do NOT want to actually install the ball in my truck bed. So this would be a trailer by itself, NOT loaded with cars!!!

    So my question is this... could I use one of those adjustable ball mount hitches in my normal receiver to put a ball up to the same height as my pickup bed and move it around that way?

    My worry is 'leverage' in that the weight on the ball is likely higher than normal and of course we are now hanging this behind the truck instead of over the rear axle? What say ye?

    Adjustable ball mount hitch.jpg
    lester car trailer 2.PNG
    lester car trailer.PNG
     
  2. 77GreenMachine

    77GreenMachine Phillip Talton

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
    Location:
    Trinity, NC
    Gooseneck is the word you’re looking for. Technically a 5th wheel and a GN are different.

    If you get a turn over ball in the bed, you’re literally looking at 20 seconds to simply flip the ball over and be ready to use it. Flip it back over to be flush when you’re done. Then, hooking up is simple and fast to move and drop the trailer. Hooking up a GN is actually way easier and faster than a tag along cause you can turn around and see the ball.

    It’s really not hard and trying to make a way to move it from your hitch is making it way more complicated than it needs to be. Just get a B&W turn over hitch for the tow rig.
     
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  3. Ron

    Ron Dum Spiro Spero Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2005
    Location:
    Sharon, SC
    If you want to pull it straigh forward 3' in yoru yard.....maybe.
    If you want to turn at all or hit a public road HELLLL Nawww Cuz

    Keeping the trailer frame off the tailgate/bed toe plate is going to be fun if not impossible.

    And as said above make 100% sure you understand th diff between a 5'er and a gooseneck...that changes eveyrthing.
     
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  4. Ron

    Ron Dum Spiro Spero Moderator

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    Location:
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    Oh so that Im not 100% negative....a yard dolley is what you want. Google that
     
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  5. CasterTroy

    CasterTroy Motarded

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    You negative Nelly's are really something

    tHIs iS DonE alL ThE tIMe WiTh gReAt SuCcEsS

    goose3.jpg
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    For those who become "triggered" I used the sarcasm font. Please remove panties from anus before responding
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
  6. SHINTON

    SHINTON Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Location:
    Triad area of NC
    Ok, some great pictures there CasterTroy that is what I wanted to see! I was thinking about the tailgate / if I would have to remove it but that looks like it would not be an issue. In that case the truck on the back of that trailer is putting some tongue weight onto the truck / which is causing the sag. (Looks like his bed is full too)

    This comes from my trailer rental biz (very similar to the thread in general chit chat where I was working with Mike to secure HIS trailer!) and if I needed to go get a trailer and move it from one lot to another, back to my house to work on etc. I am guessing that the trailer / tongue weight / unloaded will not exceed the 1/2 ton capacity of my Tundra.

    Does it look great...no, but it does appear possible and "done all the time with great success" is also good to hear!
     
  7. SHINTON

    SHINTON Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Location:
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    https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trailers/for-sale/33676679/2004-silver-eagle-single-axle-dolly

    Ok Ron, this is HUGE, I did not know this was a thing!!! I have 48' flatbeds I need to move around all the time, if I can go get them with a big dually instead of buying a class 8 tractor that is a HUGE change for me!!

    2003 RICE GOOSE NECK DOLLY

    This is one set up for doing what I am talking about above as well, I bet I can get one that could do either for me! VERY cool, love learning new stuff!
     
  8. SHINTON

    SHINTON Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Triad area of NC
    Now the next logical question, supplying air for air brakes on a flatbed, my guess is there must be a kit or such, maybe buy compressor/tank to install in bed of dually and then your "brake controller" would send the air back instead of electric?

    Taking my OWN thread off on a left hand turn here, looks like dolly would work well for that car hauler but this dolly deal for my flatbeds is heck of a thing! I was looking at buying a day cab or something to do all that, but driver / CDL, if I could to this with dually makes life / biz a LOT simpler.
     
  9. LBarr2002

    LBarr2002 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    SC
    The way that truck is loaded over the trailer axles it looks like it's either neutral or taking weight OFF the tongue. You need to know the tongue weight rating of your hitch and the unloaded pin weight of the trailer and decide from there. The tongue weight rating of my 1/2 ton truck is somewhere around 800lbs.

    Even then, I wouldn't hit a road with it. I don't know how people get away with stuff like that but I'd be under the jail if I even thought about it.
     
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  10. Caver Dave

    Caver Dave Just holdin' it down here in BFV Moderator

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    Hooterville (24171)
    Appears a 48' flatbed is in the 13K#-15K# range... empty.

    Kit: Air Brake Kit - Fifth Wheelers Australia - Air Brake - Towing

    DIY:

    Trailer air brake device to allow towing of a military trailer with a civilian truck

    Air Brake Trailer behind a hydraulic brake truck? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

    Trailer Air Brakes for a Heavy Duty Pickup

    Appears a 48' flatbed is in the 13K#-15K# range... empty
     
  11. braxton357

    braxton357 Robot

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    Apr 6, 2005
    Location:
    Morganton
    Buy a day cab for cheap. All the methods you're talking about are extremely sketch. A 48' flatbed on a dolley with caged brakes behind a tundra would have you pulled over pretty quickly. Also, the tongue weight of that wedge hauler on a 1/2 ton hitch will be silly. You don't have a driver that leases from you that will move trailers for cheap?
     
  12. Croatan_Kid

    Croatan_Kid How's your hammer hangin'?

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    What in the methamphetamine is being discussed here?!
     
  13. paradisePWoffrd

    paradisePWoffrd Recovering Project Junkie

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    Newton, NC
    You could possibly figure out how to convert it to an RV, if you don't want to get a CDL.
     
  14. 77GreenMachine

    77GreenMachine Phillip Talton

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
    Location:
    Trinity, NC
    We just methin around.

    seriously, I find this thread pretty silly. Get a gooseneck hitch in the pick up, and don’t go moving flat beds with air brakes without properly outfitted trucks and brake systems.
     
  15. Jody Treadway

    Jody Treadway Croc wearing fool Moderator

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    Mar 20, 2005
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    IMO...
    That wedge with 3 axles is easily into the carrying capacity to make DMV officers take note. Whether or not it's For Hire or not, they'll still be peeking at ya.
    Cover your bases man. Either hire someone to legally transfer it from location to location or buy your own MDT truck that can do it without any liability issues.
    Trust me.
     
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  16. BigSouth

    BigSouth Doesn't play well with others!

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    I’m pretty sure you’ll require a CDL even to move trailers that size around empty. The second you pull onto a public road with a capacity exceeding 26,001 pounds, you’d be in violation.
     
  17. SHINTON

    SHINTON Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Location:
    Triad area of NC
    Looking at some of the numbers from one of my owner operators, he is 31,200 truck/flatbed with no load and the truck sticker (2000 Intl) appears to be about 25k of that is the truck itself. So in theory that means his flatbed is 7-8k or so, not sure if he is combo (alum bed, steel frame).

    But even at say 10-12k, plus the truck, say 6-7k for a full sized dually of some sort and tow dolly (which may get eliminated here) I am certainly under 25k every way I do the math. In speaking with my fab guy that works for me, he uses tow dolly on daily basis but has said we would simply just mount a 5th wheel on a flatbed over dually and eliminate the dolly part here.

    The dolly is still interesting for short little stuff, basically means "any" truck (or suv or 1 ton work van...) could move stuff as desired. But he was telling me that backing up in the yard is a royal pita.

    The 450/550/650/750 series might be more interesting too if they already have air brake stuff wired in. That is my current / biggest hangup.

    As for "why not just buy the day cab", to add that to my MC/$1 million liability policy is $8500 per year approx for insurance unless there is a clause that would somehow allow me to add it for non-commercial use since I am moving around trailers that I own, not "for hire." That $8000+ per year in insurance is just too much for my need, which is why I pay drivers to move them for me at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
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  18. Loganwayne

    Loganwayne #BTL

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    Location:
    Clyde, North Carolina
    IMO when you move a trailer that you lease out with your personal truck, it becomes something that should be covered in your business insurance you get in a wreck your going to float the whole bill insurance is going to eat you alive. and honestly you need a truck designed for hauling those trailers. you can get an adapter made or add a goose hitch behind a hitch for the big trailers. you need to stick to paying someone to do it for you or pony up and do it the right way. hell just think about it this way. would you lease either trailer to someone that is wanting to do what you want to? if no you probably shouldn't do it.

    Side note; where i work has an older ford day cab short nose. that they would probably sale, we used it up till last summer when they bought a newer truck
     
  19. Croatan_Kid

    Croatan_Kid How's your hammer hangin'?

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    Location:
    New Bern
    It's not the weight of truck and trailer that puts you in violation, it's the weight ratings.

    Technically, I'm not legal since my truck is rated for 9200 and my trailer is rated for 17,000...that's 26,200.
     
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  20. BigSouth

    BigSouth Doesn't play well with others!

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    What he said. Devil’s in the details.
     
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  21. SHINTON

    SHINTON Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I was seeing that in the Fed Regs (GVWR, not actual weight) so the 48k or whatever those flatbeds are rated for would kill all of this... sigh! Thought I had found a way to get me a nice dually that the biz could pay for!
     
  22. NCJeeplover

    NCJeeplover Well-Known Member

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    Claremont, NC
    Just to put another nail in the coffin, my 98 2wd 5 speed dually weighed almost 8k empty last time I was at the scrap yard....
     
  23. Tacoma747

    Tacoma747 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2005
    Location:
    Winston-Salem
    Simple solution. Buy this, get a 5th wheel dolly, pull anything you want wherever you want with no CDL required (as long as it isn't commercial). Tag it in your personal name as an RV for less than $100/year, insurance would be less than $1k/year (depending on coverage).

    With a truck like this you COULD build a hitch that would stick off the back to pull a 5th wheel empty. I also have a smaller box that could be installed in place of the bed, then install a civilian 5th wheel on the back and you are still legal (adding a commercial 5th wheel it can't be legally classified as an RV). If you just need a gooseneck ball and not a 5th wheel then that is even easier.
     

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  24. jeepinmatt

    jeepinmatt Still Fat

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  25. Van-go

    Van-go Not an old man

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    You got this man.

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