Mall Crawling Racer...... #4410

ORV design and fab said:
Will you be ready for suspension tuning next weekend?
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I'm paid up for it, so I have to get this thing fixed. I've got new tires, but need to get an Atlas yoke and old drive shaft cut down. I thiiiink I can tune with the other damage. I didn't get in until 11:30pm last night and had to be in the office early this morning, so I haven't even got it off the trailer yet.
 
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Some pics are starting to make their way onto the web- I saw these earlier from qualifying:

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Couple of questions-

I got my ticket punched for the main race Unlimited Class at the 2016 King of the Hammers, more than likely the Mall Crawler 4550 will be my race car for the event. No daily driver has ever finished the main race..... I'm open to all ideas right now on getting my car to the finish line. Collectively, what opinions are out there to strengthen the car up? I'm tuning the hell out of the shocks between now and Feb, so it should be fairly fast in the desert. But the rocks are another story. 37" DOT tires and 105" wheelbase will be a challenge.

I pushed the car harder than ever at U4 Arkansas, and a combo of that and the new power- I snapped some parts. Driveshafts are too weak, trans shifting got difficult in hour 2, the car wouldn't electronically gear down to 1st, I lost brakes when the jeep was in steep angles (up hill or extreme camber) and over heating while caught in rock obstacle traffic were my main issues. And blown tires..... But everyone was blowing tires.

I prefer not to do a total rebuild purely because of the down time. I need to continue to learn the setup between now and Feb. Current relevant parts list:

  • LS1
  • 4L80 stock
  • Atlas (new)
  • Raceline beadlocks
  • Spyder 9 front w/35 spline allow shafts, ARB, ECGS F450 Hub/Outer/Brake package
  • Currie F9 rear w/35 spline shafts, ARB
  • 37" DOT Hankook M/Ts

For the Unlimited Class, I'm considering:
  • Upgrading from 1310 to 1350 driveshafts
  • Going to a sticky tire. 37 sticky? Small 39" sticky?
  • Bigger radiator? Can we cut up my front end up to fit a bigger radiator with a dual fan?
  • SWAG Body mounts
  • Brake master cylinder or some kind of upgrade

White board discussion, are there obvious changes besides what I have listed?
 
I would definetly upgrade the driveshafts and the radiator. I would upgrade the master cylinder as well as it seems like you may need something.

I would definetly upgrade to a sticky tire. I'm not sure how much an inch will get you. I'd consider staying with 37" to make sure you don't break as many parts. Many run 39" already but use what works best with your setup.
 
I know it would be awesome to run the Unlimited event since you qualified, but what about running the mall crawler on Thursday in 4500 and "selling" your spot and co-driving in 4400 with another team that doesn't make the big show? You start the race as driver of record and switch at Pit 1.

More miles in the seat, no need to upgrade or change as much (I would still upgrade your driveshafts and cooling), Redlyner Racing possibly finishing in 4500 and 4400 the same weekend.
 
I've run the EMC twice already. Exploring other options besides my current race car for the main one, but either way I still need to address a couple of new weak spots I have discovered. Finishing the EMC last year was a lot of fun, looking to build off of that.
 
rockcity said:
If you are considering other cars for 4400, I may could be talked into finishing mine up by Feb! :lol:
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White board discussion means everything's on the table. No bad ideas.


I'm considering actually driving the race jeep cross country from North Carolina to California straight up to the starting line.

Just exploring everything. But also need to make sure my car is the best version of what it can be.
 
Does the jeep still have most of the factory frame? Have you checked it over for fatigue and stress cracks? You are obviously pushing the frame way past the point of what it was intended for and the motor is adding alot of weight up front on it
 
Loganwayne said:
Does the jeep still have most of the factory frame? Have you checked it over for fatigue and stress cracks? You are obviously pushing the frame way past the point of what it was intended for and the motor is adding alot of weight up front on it
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Good question. I've gone over the frame and haven't found any damage yet, the rear is back halfed, and the new motor is 100lbs lighter than my 4.0.

The steering box ripped clean off the frame at last year's EMC, so frame reinforcement is something to consider.
 
What I see that you need to address is driveshafts and both engine and transmission cooling.

The brake issue is likely air in the lines if it only happens nose up/down/off camber.
Like we spoke about, head up the mountain and my shop is available for the drive line upgrades and general inspection needs.

I'm on board to help you out. I wanna see my logo out there for a third year in the big race :driver:
 
What brake booster/master cylinder are you running? If you still have thhave stock booster, a dodge 3500 master cylinder is a bolt on upgrade. I'm able to lock up my 38s on pavement doing 35 mph.

For cooling, if you don't have a tranny cooler, it is a must. With the torque converter constantly slipping with heavy amounts of throttle and low speeds it will heat up very quickly. With the trans fluid running through the stock radiator, it is just exchanging heat from the trans fluid to the engine coolant. Although the mechanical fan should be able to pull enough air to cool both fluids, an extra heat exchanger will drastically help both tranny temps and engine temps.

Also, is it possible to mount your winch lower? You've got a radiator needing air movement, a fan moving air, but a winch acting like a wall for the air to move around.
 
Jody Treadway said:
What I see that you need to address is driveshafts and both engine and transmission cooling.

The brake issue is likely air in the lines if it only happens nose up/down/off camber.
Like we spoke about, head up the mountain and my shop is available for the drive line upgrades and general inspection needs.

I'm on board to help you out. I wanna see my logo out there for a third year in the big race :driver:
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Jody- we need to have a few more conversations so I can bring a box of fun over to your shop. Currently trying to figure out what needs to go in that box.


I've had two reputable shops bleed the brakes after I bled the brakes, there may be air in there, but we have had bad luck finding it.

Regarding the cooling- Engine is a must. Something has to change.

Transmission cooling seems to be prefect. I have a heavy duty trans cooler and it runs 165 on the street and never got above 200 degrees during the last Ultra4 race.


adamk said:
What brake booster/master cylinder are you running? If you still have thhave stock booster, a dodge 3500 master cylinder is a bolt on upgrade. I'm able to lock up my 38s on pavement doing 35 mph.

For cooling, if you don't have a tranny cooler, it is a must. With the torque converter constantly slipping with heavy amounts of throttle and low speeds it will heat up very quickly. With the trans fluid running through the stock radiator, it is just exchanging heat from the trans fluid to the engine coolant. Although the mechanical fan should be able to pull enough air to cool both fluids, an extra heat exchanger will drastically help both tranny temps and engine temps.

Also, is it possible to mount your winch lower? You've got a radiator needing air movement, a fan moving air, but a winch acting like a wall for the air to move around.
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Great observations. I didn't know about 3500 master cylinder swap, I'm still on my stock one.

Running the winch lower is an interesting idea.


A major under taking would be converting the front frame to tube- extending my front wheelbase and also gaining an inch or two in up travel in the process. All would benefit the race car- but it's a lot of cutting and reconfiguring.
 
Realized you have an aluminum block. Im guessing that's why it's lighter than the 4.0. If you are only having cooling problems while in the rocks jammed up could you possibly use a water sprayer (or whatever the technical term is) like what they have on subaru STI cars to cool their intercoolers. Don't know if that would even work or help but to me a small mist of cold water on a radiator could help keep it cool and you could have it on a push button so to only use it when it was getting really hot. But bigger radiator for sure
 
You definitely need to replace your master cylinder Jay. I've said for a while that the current one is your braking problem. It and the booster need to be replaced. Upgrading to the dodge unit would be a good idea since you have larger calipers requiring more volume of fluid to move.

I also think that it may be a good idea to tie your existing front shock hoops into the A pillars. The faster you're going and the harder you're hitting/landing the more the front of that frame will flex right at the firewall. Eventually it's going to stress crack or worse.

I think it may also help to get rid of the full plate belly pan you have in favor of a tubed crossmember with plating only where the protection is required. This will allow more of that heat to escape when you're not moving or moving slow in traffic jams.
 
A puller fan will have a better efficiency rate than a pusher. What is the CFM of the Volvo fan? Also, hot air rises. I see some small vents on the hood but maybe look into another set at the highest point of the hood.
 
A puller with a good shroud will pull air over the entirety of the heat exchanger's fins. Putting a pusher on the outside would block the outer most fins and making them essentially nonfunctional. A higher CFM puller or combination of pullers would the the route I would go. This would result in more amperage draw but that can easily be dealt with.

What are your current IAT's? Maybe moving the air filter to a cooler location?
 
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