Guardrails pulled down?

I had to go back to page 1, to verify that the guardrail is Actually Gone! Or at least some of it. And the mention of it scraping for $100; if you meant per section, > No way. I know the Volunteers had to Drag the 20' sections in. [I dragged many]
It would be Risky enough, just to stand there & unbolt it. How the Hell would you get it out? Saw-saw? That's a lot of noise, & how many rigs carry a torch? So you got it out, couldn't have,or shouldn't have traveled Far with it. Any scrap yard should consider even cut guardrail, suspicious. Seems it should be at a local dealer, & for price, it's Low, & the Theft Should be Federal! I just don't understand this.
As for apprehension, it's too late now, to get prints, but Federal support should be investigating this, & the Chargers, should be Federal! Make this a lesson to Any & All! Any available monies, should be spent on "detection", + Apprehension!
 
I'm going to ramble and expand on my previous post. Please forgive me in advance.
I've got a little back story that helps explain and validate my opinion some. So again bare with me in length.

The few here that know me best know that I initially went to college and obtained a degree in Forest Resource Management and in Wildlife Biology. 2 separate and distinct Bachelor of Science degrees, I completed both in 4 years. In retrospect I chose that major because I was a country boy, thought working in the woods for a living would be a dream job, and I had a good friend from childhood who that was his dream. That friend and I roomed together for 3 years.

Once I set my mind on that career path I earned scholarships which paid for my college darn near in full. I graduated with a good gpa with both degrees in 4 years. I watched the vast majority of my classmates need 5 years to get either. I also worked a full time job the whole time I was in college. Well the last 3 years anyway. Upon graduation I applied and had several job offers including what was considered a "dream job" for a recent grad. Starting pay was $18,000/year. With a top end eligibility for $42k with 15+ years experience. I quickly realized I had screwed up. Heck I had made over $30k a year while being a full time student. I went about doing what I had done working in construction while I went back to school for an additional 2 years at night and got my EE. My roommate went to work for the NCFS. He is a great great guy. He is now a 15 year vet of the NCFS and will brag about his $30k year job with 6 weeks of vacation. He is also in seminary to pursue his calling and become an ordained minister.

What is the point of this you ask?

I've got a bunch of close friends that work for the USFS, the NPS, and the SCFS and NCFS. Almost all of them are great, salt of the earth give you the shirt off their back folks.

They also all fall into one of two categories:
A) They are Beta type, path of least resistance, primary motivation is what is easiest and are motivated to check a day off and get home.
B) The other half 20% are so green granola is aggravated by them, tree huggers. (Not trail huggers those are cool, tree huggers) That are motivated 100% by "saving the earth" and being "mother nature's protector".

Notice I do not pass judgement on the quality of either group. I know plenty on both athat are first class people. But they are wired different. It takes a special person to get a 4 year degree and work a job that pays less than a teacher's salary. They are few and far between. The ones who didn't fall into either category? They worked it for a few years then became an insurance sales woman, an investment broker, opened a franchise, went back to school, went in the family business, became a state house of representative (Hey Russell, I know you visit here occasionally), etc.

I think we all need to realize this is what we are working with. Group B sees us a nuisance or a detriment to the Forest Ecosystem, they may be right in that argument by the way. Group A doesnt really care, or may even support our cause, they might even drive a Jeep. But they will not fight for you, at least not when the going gets tough. They dont have that "down right bulldog mean" gear to switch into. That above all other reasons is why I think wheeling on FS land is doomed.

The only leg we have to stand on is the Mixed Use recreation doctrine. Green Peace and Sierra Club have already successfully argued before the US SC in 1993 that mechanized transportation was not a supported mixed use case. They were working against the damage caused by....BICYCLES. Now subsequent rulings have disputed that finding and made it less clear. But make no mistake NO WHERE in the mission statement of the USFS is the right to recreate on difficult trails provided or guaranteed.
Hike?
Yep.
Watch Wildlife?
yep.
Hunt?
Yep
Fish?
You Betcha.

There are loads of folks who think we are a lazy subset too slovenly to walk through the woods. They dont understand the beautiful symphony of a screaming V8. They cant appreciate the smell of burnt rubber. They dont know the feeling of trepidation when you push that off camber right to the brink, where literally shifting your body weight inside the cab may be the difference between a flop and throttling out the other side. They dont appreciate the rush or sense of accomplishment that making that ledge brings. Our entire hobby is foreign to them. And unfortunately there is hard data on their side (is the data suspect? perhaps) and nothing on our side except an impassioned plea that is neither understood nor supported by law.

I hate it boys, but I fear we are on the wrong side of this one in the inevitable end.
 
This may be a dumb idea or just not feasible, but what about trying to get the vendors for our hobby (4wheelparts just for one example) to pay for lobbyists to lobby for more rangers on the trails and more money to forestry service? It seems like every thing that does actually get done when comes to government is because there is an interest group lobbying for it. I would think that companies like that would have an interest in preserving the trails and keeping them open since after all if we eventually have no where to ride we really wont need to buy their products anymore.
 
Great post Ron -

There are loads of folks who think we are a lazy subset too slovenly to walk through the woods.

I found this out riding the Ivestor Gap trail this past fall. The hikers had mucho contempt for my Jeep rolling through there, even though it is specifically open that time of year for 4WD access.

I'm a hiker as well, and I ride MTB's, AND I love wheelin. Can't we all just get along...
 
I would think that companies like that would have an interest in preserving the trails and keeping them open since after all if we eventually have no where to ride we really wont need to buy their products anymore.

While this sounds like a good idea, I would say that the majority of revenue 4WP and others get doesn't come from offroaders. Most of their income is lifts/wheels/tires for vehicles that may never see a dirt road. While their employees may love offroading, FS properties being shut down will likely not blip their radar much.
 
Has anyone seen the sections of guardrail for sale on here? I'm assuming its a bad joke

Im sure it's just Matt's attempt at humor. His Jeep hasn't seen dirt in years, so I know he wasn't at URE since URE-Cross.
 
Thank you @Ron for the mega-post...hit the nail on the head. That sounds just about like what I went through.

2012 Grad of ASU with a Recreation Management degree with a concentration Commercial Recreation and Tourism. Doing presentations on ORV usage and writing grant proposals for ORV use and case studies on this stuff, you would think I was absolutely shitting in the greenies granola and wiping with their chacos when it came time to present the work. I just lucked out and had some very open minded professors who supported my work and my studies. That senior year and our seminar class was great, but it taught me that we have a whole lot going against us when it comes to public land use and as much as I hate to say it, this hobby/sport what-have-you is going the way of private lands.
 
Just my .02 but the answer to motorized access to public lands is the disability act. A person that cannot walk through the woods is in essence being discriminated.... but that is a whole different can of worms. IMHO it has come past the time to invite and help the local PD patrol the trails..... its a way for them to generate revenue.
 
There is NONE missing. I am up here tight now getting a status and it is just fine up here. Muddy YES. Work still need to get done. Yes. We drug rails up here that have still not been put in yet. That Is What Everyone Is seeing. So we are just fine up here still. A few new spider trails on Dickey Bell hill climb yes that need to be stopped. And a few more on the trail system but overall we are still fine and this thread can now go away.

The monument even on Daniel has been tore down and cleaned up.
 
There is NONE missing. I am up here tight now getting a status and it is just fine up here. Muddy YES. Work still need to get done. Yes. We drug rails up here that have still not been put in yet. That Is What Everyone Is seeing. So we are just fine up here still. A few new spider trails on Dickey Bell hill climb yes that need to be stopped. And a few more on the trail system but overall we are still fine and this thread can now go away.

The monument even on Daniel has been tore down and cleaned up.


There is no missing/stolen/removed guard rail? (Good :)

Well shit, there goes all the drama and joke threads..

My life sucks yet again.. ugh.
 
NO SHIT! That would be great news. At least some efforts would be holding ground. Can we get the unf people to turn things around that quickly too.
 
Good to hear. I'll be camping Fri-Sun if you need anything. Will be on trash detail if not.

I don't want these trails to close, so if it's guardrail they want, so be it. I'm going all in.
 
Just my .02 but the answer to motorized access to public lands is the disability act. A person that cannot walk through the woods is in essence being discriminated.... but that is a whole different can of worms. IMHO it has come past the time to invite and help the local PD patrol the trails..... its a way for them to generate revenue.

Just an FYI...already been to the Supreme Court on some level.
If it is declared wilderness, wilderness supercedes ADA.

Essentially ADA says you can live and work you are not entitled to be able to run a marathon for example...that is the exact example cited by Justice Thomas IIRC.
 
I did not see the batteries but i only walked about 1/2 way down the hill climb myself. I was on my bike up there .
 
OK, trying to think outside the box here......Suppose a corporation (either non-profit, or maybe better yet a for profit) was formed with the intent to become a FS concessionaire similar to a NP concessionaire http://www.nps.gov/commercialservices/. Said corporation would lease the entire trail system excepting the FS roads. Said corporation would charge user fees, police the trails (trash, rules, trespassing, prosecution if needed), maintain the trails, etc. The corporation would, of necessity, have both full time (maintenance, admin, rule enforcement) and part-time employees (peak hours, seasonal). If the FS were to consider something like this, it would take the entire responsibility off of the FS and place it on the corporation. The drawback being that fees would be very high but that would also eliminate the riff-raff.
 
Did not know about this. Not too sure the USFS participates in this type of stuff though.
 
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