Big Dogs Offroad (rant)

NickMaul

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2009
Location
Norfolk, VA
I am a little frustrated after leaving Big Dogs Offroad yesterday after the first day of their ICE BREAKER event. The entrance fee was high unfortunately, but going into it I thought I was going to get my money's worth.

With little information about the park I got from youtube videos and high hopes I drove up there for my XJs maiden voyage after a long list of repairs and upgrades since Oct 2015.

I got into the vehicle lineup to get in line with the group ride level difficulty I wanted. They had 1-7 (difficulty getting higher with the number). I get into the group ride for the level 4 ride. All of the guys in our group had capable jeeps even though some had little experience. I begin talking to people in our group about who is the leader and I can be a tail since I have a CB radio. I am told there is already a group leader and a tail.

Our leader and our tail had same modifications as the rest of the group except no CB radios. Basically as soon as we get out on the trails two people split because it was too difficult and one snaps a driveshaft so the group got smaller. As the day goes on the leader often starts booking down the trail then out of sight. This happened often and often the person behind the leader said he would honk and the trail leader still wouldn't stop. Basically the group gets split up after my jeep. There were probably 5 people behind me that got lost. Later when he sees that I am the last person to roll in after he stops he tries to lecture me on how I need to honk or let the group know that there is a hold up.

We divert and eventually get back together but at 2:30 the trail guide says he is calling it a day. The website clearly says that group rides do not end until 5:00pm.

Now it is just my jeep and four others sitting at the staging area wanting to go back out on the trails. We try to find someone that can give us a map so we can go out and not get lost. Turns out no one except the designated trail guides are allowed to have a map.

We figure what the hell let's go out there and get lost and that is what happened. On the trails I spot another trail guide leading a big group of buggies and ask if I can see a map so we can find a good route out while still having a good trail ride back to the staging area. He won't let me see a map but instead tells me where the first trail is to go back down.

In all, it was a bitter taste in my mouth because for the few trails we rode they were awesome. It would have been a whole lot better if we could find more trails to ride instead of getting lost and just turning back. I guess if you have big axles, 40s, and a cage, getting lost there isn't an issue because you can make it through all of the trails but it sucks when you come up with dead ends because your group cannot make it out of a trail that is too hard.

Rant over. Just slightly pissed :confused:
 
Not the first time i have read about situations like this.
 
Thanks for letting us know to not waste time & attend this place.
 
This is ridiculous. If the trail guide was finished he should have appointed someone to lead on ahead or passed the map on. I also would have thought that about lunch time they would have met up somewhere and regrouped in case some people were bored or in over there heads or just thought their group leader was a dick.

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Gore has some incredible trails. Rode there one weekend a few years ago. The guide/group will make or break the outing. Sounds like you got some bad ones. I was lucky enough to get in a small group one afternoon and see a lot of stuff after several peeled off early in the afternoon. Without that, I'd have felt like you.
 
Hartzell and I went once several years back. Had a blast. Sucks you had a bad guide.


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That sounds like some bullshit to me, did you tell anybody there you wouldn't be going back?
 
Hartzell and I went once several years back. Had a blast. Sucks you had a bad guide.


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That was almost 10yrs ago brah! With that said I'd love to sneak off from the guide and get lost in that place. Awesome terrain!
 
The fact that you have to pay your money and roll the dice about whether you get a good guide or bad guide means that it's a waste of money and a really poorly run outfit. It says absolutely everything about how much they care about their customers and the experience that those customers are paying for.

I think I'd be pushing for at least a partial refund if they cut off trail access a few hours before schedule. Unlikely, but at least it would be a legitimate complaint thst needs to be heard and not just empty whining. This sort of thing should come back to bite them though, at least after word spreads about this sort of crap.
 
What good is a Leader & tail gunner, without CBs? 98% of our Club, have radios, + we ask to keep the person behind you in sight. At times we Still get separated, but not for long.
 
I would like to hear from the park owners.
 
Sounds like way to much order and not enough chaos. If it was an off-road driving training facility id understand, but what the hell kinda off-road park needs to monitor every paying customer like 5 year old kids? Based on this, I'll never go there.
 
Reminds me of one of those places at the beach that rents jet skis. You pay for a guide to go with you. He tells you where you can go and what you can do. And he tries his best to make sure you don't have too much fun.
 
The land owner is a nice guy. He is not really associated with big dogs. I'm not sure how they have set up the usage arrangements. In my mind it is probably something similar to the flats. I don't fully get the guides (it is easy to get lost there but maps would prevent it) but from my experience, they aren't there to limit the fun factor. The trails there are awesome. The prices and drive up and back aren't.
 
So let me get this straight, you can't ride without one of their guides?

That is not 100% true. I saw people going in and out of trails by themselves. The idea of the staging area and the trail ride was the leader and and tail are supposed to be there to assist any breakage on the trail or recovery. They did handle it well when people wanted to ditch the ride and when the guy broke a driveshaft. But after our trail guide called it quits there was no one stopping us to go back out, they just didn't offer any advice for how to get around even when asked.

I definitely believe that our group just had crappy guides. No, I did not complain to the owner. I really have no idea whole the owner even is or who coordinates it. The park is sort of a big campground with in itself. Has two lakes, rifle range, camp sites, hiking trails....

I put in the title "small rant" because I do believe people should still go there but be warned about the not so normal rules for an off road trail system. I think it is great for the larger rock buggies because you have access to the entire park that way.

I am beginning to think that there are guides and not maps because there isn't a single access trail that gets you all around the park. Who knows honestly? I may try to call the coordinator on their website and see what the deal is with the no maps policy and report back.

Next time, if I am driving that far again I am going to Harlan :flipoff2:
 
If they will not give out Maps, that tells me, they really don't want you riding without a guide. Even with a built buggy that could make it through every trail in the park, without a map, you could get lost for a long time. I'd bet the folks you saw riding on their own were locals or had been there a lot and know the trail system.
 
OK let me throw in my 2 cents here. Our club, the Maryland Creepers, have been going to Big Dog events at The Cover for many years. Always to Main Jambo and often a couple guys at ;least to Ice Breakers. I didn't go this weekend b/c I was camping w/ my son's Scout troop up at West Point.

Just to clarify the arrangement - The Cove is a private campground that has offroad trails. It is privately owned and closed except by invitation to specific groups. It is NOT an "offroad park".
Basically they have to know your group really well to let you in there. Big Dogs Offorad is a private club that sponsors 4 events a year that are open to anybody. Anybody can come, but it is all arranged by them.
In that respect it is very much like The Flats. Owners of the campground (The Cove) have nothing to do with how events are run.

Here is the things about the maps. I have been going for years and have yet to see one. If you dig around online there are supposedly some digital versions available but not easy to find. Also osme guys have even GPS mapped them out.
"WHY so hard to get a map" you ask?
Well, my understanding is that when the campground first opened up to 4wheeling, they had problems w/ people coming in and riding when they weren't supposed to be there, or just showing up to do their own thing. So they made a deal with the private clubs that they let hold the events there, that they must keep maps under tight wraps, so that it can be easier to limit who is going to go. Also it keeps any random jackass yahoo from showing up to an event and then going wherever he pleases and getting into big trouble b/c he is underequiped etc. Basically it strongly encourages people to be with people who are experienced and "in teh know" with the camp.

Gore has some incredible trails. Rode there one weekend a few years ago. The guide/group will make or break the outing. Sounds like you got some bad ones. I was lucky enough to get in a small group one afternoon and see a lot of stuff after several peeled off early in the afternoon. Without that, I'd have felt like you.

Yes, trails there are awesome and cover everything from mild to wild. My club is mostly highly experienced folks w/ heavily built rigs, they go to play on teh rocks and hit the harder trails. I am a bit of place with them in an IFS yota, but when I go for Main Jambo I usually spend 1 day w/ one of the trail guiides w/ similarly built rigs and another tagging along w/ them. Have had a blast w/ my BIL in his FJ cruiser on 35s.

So let me get this straight, you can't ride without one of their guides?

NO. Our guys never use a trail guide from Big Dogs and just go do their own thing. They get up and leave camp early while everybody else is lining up. They do this b/c they have been going there a long time and know the trials. maybe somebody has a map, I don't know. I have always just followed along.

In fact, last fall, and again last month, our club went out and spent the weekend at The Cove w/o Big Dogs. We arranged it w/ the owner b/c he knows us and were able to get an invite. Sadly I couldn't go but I understand is was super-awesome being just a small group w/ the place all to themselves...

I would like to hear from the park owners.

You won't. the campsite owners stay away from this unless a major issue arises form something a club has done. I have heard of clubs getting the boot and not being allowed back, for instance.

Sounds like way to much order and not enough chaos. If it was an off-road driving training facility id understand, but what the hell kinda off-road park needs to monitor every paying customer like 5 year old kids? Based on this, I'll never go there.

They keep a tight leash in order to preserve their land and access to the trails. They really don't monitor it that closely, I mean when you're there for a BD event, you can go pretty much anywhere you want.

So to sum it up, this really is about boy Big Dogs runs the show, not the owners.
In this case, you clearly go ta shitty trail guide. That sucks for sure. I would complain to BD so they know not to let that guy lead again. From what you say, that guy should be fired.
Keep in mind this is all volunteer, the guides don't get paid or anything. All of the fees are covering the camping and liability from The Cove, and costs from Big Dogs for putting on the whole event.

Personally I like their events, and have had great luck w/ the trail guides I had had. Main Jambo is quite chaotic, in fact really there are too many people.
 
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If they cannot give me a map and let me ride where I want, then they will never get my money. I will go to places like the Flats and the SHOP.
 
Sorry to hear you had these issues
 
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