Air shock DD

TRD said:
Qualities that improve handling:
High spring rate
Low piston free bleed

Qualities of air shocks:
Low spring rate
High piston free bleed

Fox 2.0 Air Shocks are rated for 500 lb of chassis weight per corner, the rear of a JK weighs about 750 lb, or 50% more than their official rating.

If you buy a high quality coilover, and do it right the first time, you won't have to re-do it down the road, and you'll save a ton of money in the process.
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Yea I figured the Jeep would be too heavy because I only ever see air shocks on small rigs like Yota trucks and Samis. I figured they wouldn't work but I was wondering if anyone had ever used them on a light weight daily driver.
 
JWebbie2 said:
Yea I figured the Jeep would be too heavy because I only ever see air shocks on small rigs like Yota trucks and Samis. I figured they wouldn't work but I was wondering if anyone had ever used them on a light weight daily driver.
Click to expand...
Saved.
 
JWebbie2 said:
I've never experienced an ORI get harder while riding in my buddies Jeep with them. We rode to the beach, 5 hours, and they never faded or anything. Plus he also dailies his and has never experienced them fading either. I'm guessing they will if you don't have them set up right but like I said, his has never done that to him. Not saying it doesn't happen, just saying I don't know of anyone or have hear of that happening
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I don't have ori, and never have. I'm just explaining the short comings of the design as you compared them to coilovers.

If your buddies don't heat up, that's great. I'm glad he is getting good use of ori's on the street.

Coilovers have an advantage by the valving being completely separate from the spring force.

You can't ask for opinions and ignore the details.

Here are a few things that are great about coilovers.

You can change preload to increase force all the way to drop without changing ride height. This may require a spring swap.

You can change valving without changing or affecting preload or ride height.

Yes you need a bumpstop. Yes you need a limit strap. I'm in favor of having separate items as each one can be tuned individually for best performance. Ex: tuning springs for preload and ride height, tuning crossover rings for body roll, tuning bumpstops for big bottoms and g-outs, tuning limit straps for big top outs and articulation.

You don't necessarily need a swaybar, as the correct springs and tuning the crossover rings will help tremendously.

A sway bar is another tunable item that can be used as a package to get the total optimum performance you desire.

Also remember a sway bar will make the opposite end suspension work harder. A rear will make the front suspension more active. A front bar will make the rear suspension more active.

My overall point is judging an ori or coilover performance by its use on a street on a daily driver is pretty ridiculous.

Investing in tune able options and not tuning them to optimal performance is just as ridiculous.

As an example:

I could buy a crate motor and use and out of the box carb and it run terrible as it was never tuned for that motor, or that vehicle, or its intended use.

Judging a goldfish by its ability to climb a tree is just as ridiculous.

If it's too in depth to tune your shocks or springs, then pay someone to do that.

If it's too expensive to pay someone to that, then stick to a large company springs and shock package.

To me, an ideal setup would be sway bars front and rear, bump stops front and rear, limit straps front and rear, proper springs front and rear, and tuned shocks, bumpstops, and crossover rings front and rear. But that sounds a lot like what jeep does from the factory :/.

Should I copy and paste this to hardline also?
 
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Mac5005 said:
I don't have ori, and never have. I'm just explaining the short comings of the design as you compared them to coilovers.

If your buddies don't heat up, that's great. I'm glad he is getting good use of ori's on the street.

Coilovers have an advantage by the valving being completely separate from the spring force.

You can't ask for opinions and ignore the details.

Here are a few things that are great about coilovers.

You can change preload to increase force all the way to drop without changing ride height. This may require a spring swap.

You can change valving without changing or affecting preload or ride height.

Yes you need a bumpstop. Yes you need a limit strap. I'm in favor of having separate items as each one can be tuned individually for best performance. Ex: tuning springs for preload and ride height, tuning crossover rings for body roll, tuning bumpstops for big bottoms and g-outs, tuning limit straps for big top outs and articucoilovers, You don't necessarily need a swaybar, as the correct springs and tuning the crossover rings will help tremendously.

A sway bar is another tunable item that can be used as a package to get the total optimum performance you desire.

Also remember a sway bar will make the opposite end suspension work harder. A rear will make the front suspension more active. A front bar will make the rear suspension more active.

My overall point is judging an ori or coilover performance by its use on a street on a daily driver is pretty ridiculous.

Investing in tune able options and not tuning them to optimal performance is just as ridiculous.

As an example:

I could buy a crate motor and use and out of the box carb and it run terrible as it was never tuned for that motor, or that vehicle, or its intended use.

Judging a goldfish by its ability to climb a tree is just as ridiculous.

If it's too in depth to tune your shocks or springs, then pay someone to do that.

If it's too expensive to pay someone to that, then stick to a large company springs and shock package.

To me, an ideal setup would be sway bars front and rear, bump stops front and rear, limit straps front and rear, proper springs front and rear, and tuned shocks, bumpstops, and crossover rings front and rear. But that sounds a lot like what jeep does from the factory :/.

Should I copy and paste this to hardline also?
Click to expand...

I already knew that about coilovers, I've looked into them along with ORIs and I just like how ORIs have performed first hand. Coilovers do work and they work good, I never said they didn't work, I would rather have ORIs no matter how much shit you copy and past from Wikipedia
 
JWebbie2 said:
I already knew that about coilovers, I've looked into them along with ORIs and I just like how ORIs have performed first hand. Coilovers do work and they work good, I never said they didn't work, I would rather have ORIs no matter how much shit you copy and past from Wikipedia
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I can guarantee Mac5005 did not copy and paste anything.

Hate that you wasted everyone's time since you already know everything.
 
JWebbie2 said:
Hey guys, I'm thinking about getting a set of 14" Fox 2.0 air shock for the rear of my 2 door JK. Its my daily and was wondering if anyone has DD their rig with air shocks? I know they are basically coil overs to an extent, but didn't know if they were "safe" since most of the time I see them on trail rigs. I plan on running a rear sway bar with them, which should help with it leaning at all.
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Basically coilovers. No not at all.

JWebbie2 said:
I already knew that about coilovers, I've looked into them along with ORIs and I just like how ORIs have performed first hand. Coilovers do work and they work good, I never said they didn't work, I would rather have ORIs no matter how much shit you copy and past from Wikipedia
Click to expand...

You can't post what you did above, and then say "I already knew that about coilovers" .

I posted that info as it is not an opinion based response between brand favoritism. The coilover vs ori debate has been beat to death by people far smarter than us. Search some.

Why don't you treat this subject like an adult and compare pros and cons with associated cost comparisons to see which is a better product for your application and usage?

Instead of saying " what do you guys think? O wait, I don't care bc all my friends who DD jks and have ORI are so cool, I must get ori's to be just as cool.

Do you have a yeti cooler? How about Costa sunglasses? Light bars before lockers?

That is a big investment just to look cool.

What "shit" did I copy and paste?

As stated on other forums. You look like a douche posting identical threads asking questions on multiple forums, and blatantly ignoring any and all advice and suggestions from vendors and from members with personal experience that is specifically pertinent to your question.

fbc477392276bf31e662bb49b06f55c7.jpg
 
Moments like this I hate having a JK lol


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Enough of all of this. You CAN run air shocks on a daily driver, you just need to take some precautions first.

It is imperative to have your LCA and UCA angles steep as possible. This will in turn keep you from needing neither a sway bar or limit straps.
By doing the above, you'll be guaranteed a pleasant as punch driving experience.
Where's the sarcasm emoticon?

Air shocks on a 4500# rig? It'll never work
onlift.jpg
 
Jody Treadway said:
Enough of all of this. You CAN run air shocks on a daily driver, you just need to take some precautions first.

It is imperative to have your LCA and UCA angles steep as possible. This will in turn keep you from needing neither a sway bar or limit straps.
By doing the above, you'll be guaranteed a pleasant as punch driving experience.
Where's the sarcasm emoticon?

Air shocks on a 4500# rig? It'll never work
View attachment 229639
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Those are special 2.5" airshocks filled with unicorn tears that help them work better.
:lol:
 
Just want to point out and not nickpick, a 2 door jk is about 4K lbs, rubicon package supposedly adds another 100. You add gear, corners, bumpers, cage, gas, lightbars, and occupants. I'm not sure even a 2.5 air shock would be a good idea. I highly doubt he's running this but all aluminum armor, aluminum control arms and what not could help. JKs are pigs and easily creep up to 5,000+ lbs for a built 2 door. He's already gonna run SD tons and 37-40" tires. And originally he was gonna run 4.88s but now switched to 5.38s even though he told me everyone and his brother said it was too deep. I'm still trying to figure out how he got a ride in all these JKs on ORIs and coilovers when most those guys are on the west coast. Shit I've only heard of maybe 4-5 JKs on tons in NC.

I wouldn't run a kit form long arm 3 link rear with air shocks on a JK. In my opinion of being around a lot of built JKs and figuring out what works you'll need to run a heavy sway bar out back with the rear 3 link kits unless you outboard the shocks. You move that tank and you could do a lot better triangulated 4 link out back, but unless you go the route I did you're gonna drop $2k. But doing so you gain a lot of belly height and you can run less lift.


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iwaxmyjimmy said:
Just want to point out and not nickpick, a 2 door jk is about 4K lbs, rubicon package supposedly adds another 100. You add gear, corners, bumpers, cage, gas, lightbars, and occupants. I'm not sure even a 2.5 air shock would be a good idea. I highly doubt he's running this but all aluminum armor, aluminum control arms and what not could help. JKs are pigs and easily creep up to 5,000+ lbs for a built 2 door. He's already gonna run SD tons and 37-40" tires. And originally he was gonna run 4.88s but now switched to 5.38s even though he told me everyone and his brother said it was too deep. I'm still trying to figure out how he got a ride in all these JKs on ORIs and coilovers when most those guys are on the west coast. Shit I've only heard of maybe 4-5 JKs on tons in NC.

I wouldn't run a kit form long arm 3 link rear with air shocks on a JK. In my opinion of being around a lot of built JKs and figuring out what works you'll need to run a heavy sway bar out back with the rear 3 link kits unless you outboard the shocks. You move that tank and you could do a lot better triangulated 4 link out back, but unless you go the route I did you're gonna drop $2k. But doing so you gain a lot of belly height and you can run less lift.


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Click to expand...

Like I said before, I figured air shocks wouldn't work, just didn't know if anyone had tried it before. I looked on a couple forums and didn't find anything so I figured I would ask. And yea I know JKs are a tad on the heavy side but I remember reading (can't remember where) that Fox 2.0s were good for like 1000 lbs each corner. And I was gonna run 4.88s but that's when the plan was gonna be to run 37s, maybe 38s, but kinda forgot to factor armor weight and all that and also decided to do 40s. And I've rode in those JKs because I have some buddies I wheel with from other states that mostly drive JKs. And I plan on 4 linking the rear, maybe 3 link, can't decide about the gas tank. But I love what you did with your gas tank, I might have to borrow that idea and pick your brain down the road lol.
 
Mac5005 said:
Basically coilovers. No not at all.



You can't post what you did above, and then say "I already knew that about coilovers" .

I posted that info as it is not an opinion based response between brand favoritism. The coilover vs ori debate has been beat to death by people far smarter than us. Search some.

Why don't you trat this subject like an adult and compare pros and cons with associated cost comparisons to see which is a better product for your application and usage?

Instead of saying " what do you guys think? O wait, I don't care bc all my friends who DD jks and have ORI are so cool, I must get ori's to be just as cool.

Do you have a yeti cooler? How about Costa sunglasses? Light bars before lockers?

That is a big investment just to look cool.

What "shit" did I copy and paste?

As stated on other forums. You look like a douche posting identical threads asking questions on multiple forums, and blatantly ignoring any and all advice and suggestions from vendors and from members with personal experience that is specifically pertinent to your question.

fbc477392276bf31e662bb49b06f55c7.jpg
Click to expand...

I've read what feels like 100s of forum posts about ORIs vs coilovers like you've talked about and I have compared the 2 and which would fit better for me. And for me, I think the ORIs would benefit me more than coilovers, I'm not doing it to "look cool" since I've only seen a hand full of Jeeps with ORIs, only seem 2 JKs in person with them and probably 5 TJs.
And no i have a Coleman cooler, Oakley sunglasses( because I worked for them) and I do have a light bar but I have lockers for my 1 tons because I wasn't going to waste money on a Dana 30, shit we can all agree on that lol.
I also posted on here and hard line because I know there's more people on there, considering a lot of the people on here are in NC, and hard line is all over. I figured if I didn't see anyone that's seen air shocks on the road that maybe someone on hard line has?
 
JWebbie2 said:
Like I said before, I figured air shocks wouldn't work, just didn't know if anyone had tried it before. I looked on a couple forums and didn't find anything so I figured I would ask. And yea I know JKs are a tad on the heavy side but I remember reading (can't remember where) that Fox 2.0s were good for like 1000 lbs each corner. And I was gonna run 4.88s but that's when the plan was gonna be to run 37s, maybe 38s, but kinda forgot to factor armor weight and all that and also decided to do 40s. And I've rode in those JKs because I have some buddies I wheel with from other states that mostly drive JKs. And I plan on 4 linking the rear, maybe 3 link, can't decide about the gas tank. But I love what you did with your gas tank, I might have to borrow that idea and pick your brain down the road lol.
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We all understand they have a 1000lb rating per corner, but when you run something at near or at max capacity it really wears stuff out very quick and makes it a pain in the ass to tune. A 3 link vs 4 link rear is a whole different animal, personally you're looking at a $4-$5k difference going from 3 link to 4 link unless you're a decent fabricator that feels comfortable building your own suspension. I don't know much of your back ground, but I'm not feeling like you're that big into fabrication and building things from scratch. Gotta be committed to cutting the frame and sure your welds can take some abuse. It's not a beginners project by any means, but $1500 easily double triangulate the rear then what ever route you want to go for the tank. I've got about $600 in my TJ tankswap and flatbelly conversion including a 1310 CV rear driveshaft. I haven't decided if I'm gonna use a gen right stretch tank, that'll bolt in, to keep my tank out of the bed, or be cheap and find a cell and build a skid for it and what not. I've got to finish my k5 first before I get started on that.
 
Since @Jody Treadway beat me to it on the weight thang,
My pig is a 5200 pound rock missle. 2.5" x 18" bighorn rock shocks.
Flawless performance. Wife's rig has ORI's and an LS-1 for comparison in "real world" testing.
No copy and paste here because i don't know how to do it.
If you ask for advice on shocks and do not agree with said advice, it might be you Sir.
@mcutler is a fucking guru on this subject matter also.
JFL!
 
My jk wasn't over built but with armor all my crap and tools it weighed right at 4850 1000 pounds to the corner a driver and passenger just doesn't add up. If you want ori's then get em. All the tech gurus on here advise against it I'd go with their advice
 
iwaxmyjimmy said:
We all understand they have a 1000lb rating per corner, but when you run something at near or at max capacity it really wears stuff out very quick and makes it a pain in the ass to tune. A 3 link vs 4 link rear is a whole different animal, personally you're looking at a $4-$5k difference going from 3 link to 4 link unless you're a decent fabricator that feels comfortable building your own suspension. I don't know much of your back ground, but I'm not feeling like you're that big into fabrication and building things from scratch. Gotta be committed to cutting the frame and sure your welds can take some abuse. It's not a beginners project by any means, but $1500 easily double triangulate the rear then what ever route you want to go for the tank. I've got about $600 in my TJ tankswap and flatbelly conversion including a 1310 CV rear driveshaft. I haven't decided if I'm gonna use a gen right stretch tank, that'll bolt in, to keep my tank out of the bed, or be cheap and find a cell and build a skid for it and what not. I've got to finish my k5 first before I get started on that.
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Yea I hear ya, but I'm not getting the air shocks, just so everyone is clear on that. I'll just keep running my lift I have now until I stretch the front and rear. But I don't see where you got the $4-5k difference though? I know if I 3 link the rear I don't really have to modify the gas tank, but I know I'll have to get a fuel cell or something if I triangulated the rear because the upper right side would hit the tank bad. And I can weld and everything and feel comfortable welding and having strong welds, but personally, I would rather have a professional welder do it for me, just more reassurance I guess lol. I wish I could TIG weld (tried it a few times and have come to the conclusion its impossible lol) so that I could maybe make my own aluminum fuel cell. What all are you doing to the K5? I don't think I've seen a build thread on it
 
That $4-$5k is including labor, shocks, links and it might be not he cheat end. I had a feeling you weren't 100% confident in your fab work.

Bolt on 3 link rear might run you $3kish but having someone build a trianglated 4 link and build/install a fuel cell for you including the fuel lines. Then build a belly pan, easily $6-8k

It's just a '87 k5, roller 350/SM465/np205/locked 60 front/shaved14 bolt with disc it'll get the 38.5s from the jeep while I front and back half the jeep


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iwaxmyjimmy said:
That $4-$5k is including labor, shocks, links and it might be not he cheat end. I had a feeling you weren't 100% confident in your fab work.

Bolt on 3 link rear might run you $3kish but having someone build a trianglated 4 link and build/install a fuel cell for you including the fuel lines. Then build a belly pan, easily $6-8k

It's just a '87 k5, roller 350/SM465/np205/locked 60 front/shaved14 bolt with disc it'll get the 38.5s from the jeep while I front and back half the jeep


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I honestly don't weld enough to stay "good" I guess. But I have a few friends that weld for a living and would help me build a 3 or 4 link, so I would only have to buy pizza and beer for the labor part lol. So I think I could come in a lot lower than $6k. Tubing would be the major $$ but still wouldn't be that expensive really. I know Barnes has 3 and 4 link kits, haven't really looked too much into them though I think I've seen a few people use them in their builds and I believe they are reasonably priced, even though you could probably build one for cheaper with Ruffstuff components.
That K5 sounds bad ass man! I contemplated getting a 14 bolt for my JK but it was impossible finding the one I wanted and I didn't want to run spacers so that the bolt patterns match. But good thing the Sterling is strong lol
 
JWebbie2 said:
I honestly don't weld enough to stay "good" I guess. But I have a few friends that weld for a living and would help me build a 3 or 4 link, so I would only have to buy pizza and beer for the labor part lol. So I think I could come in a lot lower than $6k. Tubing would be the major $$ but still wouldn't be that expensive really. I know Barnes has 3 and 4 link kits, haven't really looked too much into them though I think I've seen a few people use them in their builds and I believe they are reasonably priced, even though you could probably build one for cheaper with Ruffstuff components.
That K5 sounds bad ass man! I contemplated getting a 14 bolt for my JK but it was impossible finding the one I wanted and I didn't want to run spacers so that the bolt patterns match. But good thing the Sterling is strong lol
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Good non resi coilovers $1200, 4 link kit with tubing $800, 05-06 TJ fuel pump $500, cell-$?/TJ stretch tank $1200, materials to cut the frame, build/buy shock towers, add cross members to the frame where you French the shocks in, then you gotta figure out how you're gonna build your floor, plumbing fuel/evap/fuelpump wiring. It adds up pretty quick and that's just the rear.

I'm able to get away with cheaper because I can design and CNC cut out/bend my brackets myself. And I've got a line on a LJ stretch tank that I'll be doing some work for the kid in a trade.

The k5 should be fun, but eventually it will get a doubler, maybe a big block, and 43 SXs. 99-06 14 bolts, gotta machine the hubs to fit tone rings and they do have a heavy offset pinion. Just redrill the unit bearings and pair of rotors to 8 on 6.5. A machine shop near you should be about to easily.
 
iwaxmyjimmy said:
Good non resi coilovers $1200, 4 link kit with tubing $800, 05-06 TJ fuel pump $500, cell-$?/TJ stretch tank $1200, materials to cut the frame, build/buy shock towers, add cross members to the frame where you French the shocks in, then you gotta figure out how you're gonna build your floor, plumbing fuel/evap/fuelpump wiring. It adds up pretty quick and that's just the rear.

I'm able to get away with cheaper because I can design and CNC cut out/bend my brackets myself. And I've got a line on a LJ stretch tank that I'll be doing some work for the kid in a trade.

The k5 should be fun, but eventually it will get a doubler, maybe a big block, and 43 SXs. 99-06 14 bolts, gotta machine the hubs to fit tone rings and they do have a heavy offset pinion. Just redrill the unit bearings and pair of rotors to 8 on 6.5. A machine shop near you should be about to easily.
Click to expand...

Yea it does add up pretty fast, I don't think I would flat belly my JK though. Really haven't thought about doin that really.
Nice!!! Wish I had a CNC machine!
You'll love the 43 SXs, my buddy has a CJ/YJ bastard juggy with them on and they hook sooooo good. And yea I looked for those but could never find a good looking one so I just bought the matching Sterling when I got the 60. Plus I already have the gears, install kit, diff cover and some other odds and ends for that axle. It's a little late to ditch it now lol
 
JWebbie2 said:
Yea it does add up pretty fast, I don't think I would flat belly my JK though. Really haven't thought about doin that really.
Nice!!! Wish I had a CNC machine!
You'll love the 43 SXs, my buddy has a CJ/YJ bastard juggy with them on and they hook sooooo good. And yea I looked for those but could never find a good looking one so I just bought the matching Sterling when I got the 60. Plus I already have the gears, install kit, diff cover and some other odds and ends for that axle. It's a little late to ditch it now lol
Click to expand...

Well if you're wanting to get the most out of it do it right the first time. It's a shit ton of work to redo everything but worth it. I was able to keep my jeep up and running the whole time I swapped the TJ tank in. So I really can't complain for that. But setting up a 4 link I'm cutting the rear frame rails out and building new ones so I don't have to french shock mounts into the frame and barely if at all cut into the fenderwell so I can keep my back seat still.
 
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