Explain 3 Phase Power

paradisePWoffrd said:
there isnt any issues with it, if you only want single phase. You need to figure out how long, and how much power you want to have out there, to determine what size wire you need. Also need to make sure you get wire that is designed for direct bury or, my recommendation, place a pipe to put it in. I recommend placing multiple pipes out there. That way you have a chase if you decide to run water or comm to the building, or upgrade the power.
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110 single phase is enough for what I do now. running pipe is the plan. I intend to run at least cold water out there for a spigot and a sink.
 
What he said.
Only other consideration is if the current panel is a 3 phase or single phase panel.
Bus layout may alter how you land and arrange circuits
 
JSJJ388 said:
110 single phase is enough for what I do now. running pipe is the plan. I intend to run at least cold water out there for a spigot and a sink.
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I would run 240V out there. If you have a panel in the building, there is no reason not to.

Biggest question is, how much amperage do you need in that panel? How far is the cable run?

cold water with a POU water heater at the sink.
 
paradisePWoffrd said:
I would run 240V out there. If you have a panel in the building, there is no reason not to.

Biggest question is, how much amperage do you need in that panel? How far is the cable run?

cold water with a POU water heater at the sink.
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Good point. Only real difference is wire cost.

Im not sure of amperage yet, still figurin on it. Currently, I need the 4 large florescent lights, 6 wall outlets, and an offshoot to a shed with 1 wall outlet and a light bulb. Only other things planned is an outside light, and a welder (this would require the 220 hookup). Only things that would be used at the same time is the blower for the woodstove or the window ac unit, the lights and one outlet.

That sounds like a good idea.

I am considering whether or not to do this as a short term or long term setup. I would love to have the full hookups, just not in the budget right now. For what they want to come turn it back on, I can run a line out there and cover the first power bill.
 
JSJJ388 said:
Ok, sidetrack. We are in the house now. the meter for the shop reads 000000 hrs. Appears dead as there is nothing to the main breaker. I plan to have duke come out and verify that it is indeed dead and no juice whatsoever. they want a small fortune to turn it back on as it is apparently considered a "commercial hookup"? I have several open breakers in the houses box, any problem with running a heavy gauge wire from the house out there? That is the way we did my stepdads shop when we built it. I only need 110 right now and a 220 at some point for a welder. Would I have any issues doing this? Ill post pics of meter and box tonight.
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Is the meter still there? If it is look up at the pole that the service comes in on and see if they didn't just pull the fuses out. With a long stick you could have it all up and going in no time. (Disclaimer: don't actually try this. You are nearly guaranteed to kill yourself if you do)

In all serioisness though you also need to figure out how much free juice you have in the house panel. If it's an older home you probably only have 100 amp service. Using a welder in the shop with a few lights on while the wife is drying clothes inside when the house ac cuts on might put you all in the dark. Pulling 100 amps is easier than you think it is.
 
Called duke. The meter was turned off in 01. They have since ran new lines and meters. There is no longer any 3 phase hookup and to turn the meter on is $200 because it's "non residential". That means the service fee is higher as well as the rate. Looks like I'm gonna be running wire from the house..... However the meter is hot, so I'll have to wait for them to come unhook it n

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JSJJ388 said:
Called duke. The meter was turned off in 01. They have since ran new lines and meters. There is no longer any 3 phase hookup and to turn the meter on is $200 because it's "non residential". That means the service fee is higher as well as the rate. Looks like I'm gonna be running wire from the house..... However the meter is hot, so I'll have to wait for them to come unhook it n

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I'd look into the pricing structure more before making my mind up. If they're charging you different rates during peak power you might actually wind up with cheaper electric bills than if you were on standard service.
 
If you don't use any juice during peak power that is. It's stupid high during peak but the rest of the time it might as well be free no more than you'll use.
 
jeepinmatt said:
...... I asked Duke Power about running 3 phase to my house. They said I would have to pay for all the lines and new poles from the main highway, down the secondary road, down my tertiary road, and down my driveway, which is probably about 2 miles. I didn't even bother with a quote. If you ever go to sell your place, it will add some small value to the right person because you have 440v 3phase power.
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So my neighbor just got Duke to drop 3 phase to his house. He dug the conduit in and then they ran the cable.
I'm glad someone asked this question. When he was explaining it to me the electricity shit was over my head until now.
We live on a main road and the run wasn't that long to the house from the pole to the transformer.
But get this shit. They literally put a pole in the ground about 10' from the one in my yard.
Most janky shit I ever seen. Like why couldn't they just put the damn transformer in the single existing pole and run the damn cable down from there?
The current pole is in both our yards equally.

I'll post a pic here soon.
 
awheelterd said:
I'd look into the pricing structure more before making my mind up. If they're charging you different rates during peak power you might actually wind up with cheaper electric bills than if you were on standard service.
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It will probably fall under a "Small General Service". Somewhere there is a thread about that on here. The price per KwH is higher than residential, and the monthly minimum is also higher. Something like $10/month for residential and $20/month for SGS. I've never had a power bill less than $25 for my shop service, even if I haven't spent any time in the shop that month. If you don't need the 3 phase, the savings of running from the house will pay for the wire in a year or three.
 
My shop used to come from the panel in my house which is a 200a service. It sucked. Huge voltage drop, dimmed the house lights when Welding, couldn't have run a large machine if I wanted. Had them run its own service as a residential accessory structure and am much happier.
Just saying, if you truly are going to never use the building or ever try and run a compressor or welder then consider burying wire, otherwise see if you can get it's own non commercial service.
 
braxton357 said:
My shop used to come from the panel in my house which is a 200a service. It sucked. Huge voltage drop, dimmed the house lights when Welding, couldn't have run a large machine if I wanted. Had them run its own service as a residential accessory structure and am much happier.
Just saying, if you truly are going to never use the building or ever try and run a compressor or welder then consider burying wire, otherwise see if you can get it's own non commercial service.
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Depends on how it's wired. At our old place, we shared a transformer with the neighbors. If you were paying attention, you could see our lights dim when their dryer kicked on.
 
jeepinmatt said:
It will probably fall under a "Small General Service". Somewhere there is a thread about that on here. The price per KwH is higher than residential, and the monthly minimum is also higher. Something like $10/month for residential and $20/month for SGS. I've never had a power bill less than $25 for my shop service, even if I haven't spent any time in the shop that month. If you don't need the 3 phase, the savings of running from the house will pay for the wire in a year or three.
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We pay 7 cent per kwh not during peak at work an I pay straight 11 cent per kwh at home. Both from wake electric. Duke may be different though.
 
awheelterd said:
We pay 7 cent per kwh not during peak at work an I pay straight 11 cent per kwh at home. Both from wake electric. Duke may be different though.
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I've called Duke multiple times to get it changed and we go through the options and they say it is definitely classed correctly as Small general service.
House:
upload_2017-12-13_11-59-49.png

Shop:
upload_2017-12-13_12-0-13.png



Not counting the montly minimum, as I'm not sure how that factors in to their calculation, the house was $0.103/Kwh and the shop was $0.229/Kwh.
 
Slightly off-topic, but is anything attached to a house automatically considered residential? So a high-ish amp service to an attached garage for welder, compressor, etc..?

I need to do some learning about this for my upcoming attached build. I also need to make my own thread about that....
 
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Used some drop cords I had to get temp power to the shop. I know, its not ideal, but its just so that I have lights and a blower for the stove. It didnt trip anything and the cord doesnt get hot, so I guess itll do until I get the wires run.

20171215_172647.jpg
 
JSJJ388 said:
I know basic wiring and electrical stuff, but this is over my head. Can anyone explain it in layman terms? Its there and hooked up, so if I can benefit from it, why not.
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From an old man who has worked with/around industrial electricity for at least a few weeks... or more... if you don't know what you are doing, a forum is NOT the place to learn about it. Fortunately, I've never witnessed anyone killed, but I have seen (with my own eyes) the results of a simple silly mistake... it was NOT very pretty. Get some help & coaching from someone who knows (not thinks) what he/she is doing. I base my knowledge on the fact that I still have 10 fingers & 10 toes. I know some who can't say that. Not ranting... just best wishes. :)
 
Granny said:
From an old man who has worked with/around industrial electricity for at least a few weeks... or more... if you don't know what you are doing, a forum is NOT the place to learn about it. Fortunately, I've never witnessed anyone killed, but I have seen (with my own eyes) the results of a simple silly mistake... it was NOT very pretty. Get some help & coaching from someone who knows (not thinks) what he/she is doing. I base my knowledge on the fact that I still have 10 fingers & 10 toes. I know some who can't say that. Not ranting... just best wishes. :)
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Oh I definitely dont plan on doing this by myself. My stepdad was a contractor, but he never dealt with 3 phase stuff, just basic house wiring. At this point, the plan is for us to run wire from a dedicated breaker in the house to the existing breaker box in the shop. I appreciate the well wishes.
 
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