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shawn said:
If you need 4wd to drive a gravel road, you have an entirely different set of problems.
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I don't think anyone has an issue navigating gravel roads in a 2wd car.

However, there have been more than one occassion I have seen roads at Uwharrie in the condition that would keep me and my mazda sedan from continuing. You might be willing to drag the bottom of your car accross rocks sticking out of the road but I think it is safe to say most people are not and I don't think they should have to.
 
What’s the problem seen a few civics and Hyundai’s up at the mudhole. If you can get a 2 wheeldrive 1993 f350 dually pulling a 40ft camper in and out of there you don’t have a problem. I guess it might be challenging on a unicycle but hell I can’t run one on flat ground.
 
anvilrubi said:
What’s the problem seen a few civics and Hyundai’s up at the mudhole. If you can get a 2 wheeldrive 1993 f350 dually pulling a 40ft camper in and out of there you don’t have a problem. I guess it might be challenging on a unicycle but hell I can’t run one on flat ground.
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I explained the problem in the post before yours.
 
To me, seems the problem is the person running the grader doesn't know how to put a crown / cross-slope which would control the runoff and minimize alot of the craters and washboards. A good grade and maybe going as far as tar & chip is all it needs to make the road manageable for normal vehicle.
 
jeepinmatt said:
So where are all these houses deep in the woods? I assume those people drive to and fro on a daily basis?
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There is a few that live right off of Dutch John road to the left. Them and the horse people are ones that always bitch and moan about the OHV people tearing up their roads and that on workdays we should focus on their roads instead of the trails.
 
I would like to see the service paved if for no other reason then to be able to shut the horse people the fuck up. Also, would be nice to be able to see when driving down them instead of feeling like you are in fog, lol.
 
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Nissan11 said:
I disagree with the OP. Why should only people with 4x4 vehicles have access to public national forest? We have the OHV trails. Why would we want to limit use of the rest of the forest and recreational opportunities to only people like us? I want as many people as possible to enjoy outdoor areas and have the opportunity to appreciate wildlife conservation. Access is a critical part of that.
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BTW I missed this the first time around. Unknowingly you are getting dangerously close to what is the major argument AGAINST OHV access on NFS land.
Access to that certain area should be open and available to all.
Even if that area is the top of XYZ Mountain and the person accessing it is a ADA applicable citizen.
Hand rails and guard rails at every stream/river/lake edge. These things have been fought for in congress before.

Its a fun debate to balance between access/preservation/wilderness.
 
Nothing preventing access except willingness or laziness.

When I see a guy with no legs complete a spartan race, I am now convinced almost any argument about not having access is laziness.

You have access, just go hike it or bike it, etc. nothing says access was via a paved road. Access = permission. How you fulfill that is totally up to you.


Keep the pavers in the city and let us enjoy the woods with the select few that decide to do it in a 4x4. If you want access for everyone and want to be around them, go to your local city park. We can enjoy a tree and the woods about anywhere, us off roaders enjoy the method of access just as much as anything. Let us have that at least.
 
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rockcity said:
Nothing preventing access except willingness or laziness.

When I see a guy with no legs complete a spartan race, I am now convinced almost any argument about not having access is laziness.

You have access, just go hike it or bike it, etc. nothing says access was via a paved road. Access = permission. How you fulfill that is totally up to you.


Keep the pavers in the city and let us enjoy the woods with the select few that decide to do it in a 4x4. If you want access for everyone and want to be around them, go to your local city park. We can enjoy a tree and the woods about anywhere, is off roaders enjoy the method of access just as much as anything. Let us have that at least.
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Agree. I watched a documentary about a guy with no legs from his mid thigh down who climbed Mount Everest with prosthetic legs.
 
Fyi my post about access wasn't my thoughts but the position of others, that might read wrong to those that don't know me.
 
rockcity said:
Nothing preventing access except willingness or laziness.

When I see a guy with no legs complete a spartan race, I am now convinced almost any argument about not having access is laziness.

You have access, just go hike it or bike it, etc. nothing says access was via a paved road. Access = permission. How you fulfill that is totally up to you.


Keep the pavers in the city and let us enjoy the woods with the select few that decide to do it in a 4x4. If you want access for everyone and want to be around them, go to your local city park. We can enjoy a tree and the woods about anywhere, us off roaders enjoy the method of access just as much as anything. Let us have that at least.
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I have to respectfully disagree. I don't have a left knee cap. Lost it when I was 16 in a car accident. I'm not lazy. I was 215 when my step daughter died from leukemia. I now weight 180. I lost it form being active but not from walking or running or biking. I cannot do those things for long enough to matter. I do what I can when I can. I had a friend on NAXJA die who had a physical disability. He opened my eyes that some people need access to the wilderness from their vehicle because they cannot physically walk the paths. Yes the guy with prosthetic legs can do it and he does not feel pain with every step he takes. I feel pain every day in my knee and now my back. So say what you want about easier access but I for one believe there should be more OHV access to roads. I'm not very good with putting my thoughts to page but not everyone can do what that vet does you saw running with no legs. And it is not because of laziness.... just my .02 from someone that has lived with pain. Have you and limitations.
 
I said "almost" any of them were due to laziness. I understand some are due to inability.

But, does that mean we ignore the wants of thousands of people for the wants of a few?
 
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rockcity said:
But, does that mean we ignore the wants of thousands of people for the wants of a few?
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Ever walk past 200 empty handicapped parking spaces on the way to the front doors?

Have you paid attention to how toilet facility's have to be labeled from now on?

Have you seen corporate memo's on how you're supposed to address the holidays in the office?

Have you sat thru new student orientation at a UNC-system college and had to endure the 2 hr lecture on "Respecting a persons pronoun" and realizing there's 47 pronouns to address "people" now?

We do it every damn day

Sorry Rob..not directed at you, or anyone in particular....I'm getting old and crotchety and this chaps my ass higher than a 5ft flame
 
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CasterTroy said:
Have you seen corporate memo's on how you're supposed to address the holidays in the office?
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My group used to go out for a 'Christmas Lunch' every year around mid-December. Last year we couldn't call it that anymore. I was floored.
 
Eventually we won't have Christmas holidays because they are exclusive of other religions. That's scary and unfortunately, what this world is coming to... appease the the minority few at the expense of the majority.


And, I remain of the same opinion, access = permission, not a right to have a paved road to the top of a mountain, etc. get on a horse, ride a bike, get creative. Your creativity and willingness is the only thing stopping you.
 
ghost said:
I have to respectfully disagree. I don't have a left knee cap. Lost it when I was 16 in a car accident. I'm not lazy. I was 215 when my step daughter died from leukemia. I now weight 180. I lost it form being active but not from walking or running or biking. I cannot do those things for long enough to matter. I do what I can when I can. I had a friend on NAXJA die who had a physical disability. He opened my eyes that some people need access to the wilderness from their vehicle because they cannot physically walk the paths. Yes the guy with prosthetic legs can do it and he does not feel pain with every step he takes. I feel pain every day in my knee and now my back. So say what you want about easier access but I for one believe there should be more OHV access to roads. I'm not very good with putting my thoughts to page but not everyone can do what that vet does you saw running with no legs. And it is not because of laziness.... just my .02 from someone that has lived with pain. Have you and limitations.
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I love the debate and mental exercise. This isnt directed at you, but when and where are the lines for 'reasonable accommodations'...think carefully here.

Lets say that I have a strong desire to see a specific tree located on Daniel at URE. Now lets suggest that I can not ride in a 4wd vehicle because I am wheelchair bound and require a van with a lift gate OR a transfer height under 24".

These are REAL arguments people are making. To pave, asphalt, black top every road in every public land.
 
Ron said:
I love the debate and mental exercise. This isnt directed at you, but when and where are the lines for 'reasonable accommodations'...think carefully here.

Lets say that I have a strong desire to see a specific tree located on Daniel at URE. Now lets suggest that I can not ride in a 4wd vehicle because I am wheelchair bound and require a van with a lift gate OR a transfer height under 24".

These are REAL arguments people are making. To pave, asphalt, black top every road in every public land.
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I see your point there but I will say. I wheeled with a guy from out west at a Cherokee Crawl at Tellico that was wheel chair bound. He about flopped on slickrock. Hell of a nice guy and really opened my eyes to people not letting their disability hold them back. I for one don't necessarily want to see URE paved. I'd like for the road to Arrowhead to be paved but that is about it.
 
I don't believe I've ever seen a URE gravel road in a state that I couldn't drive my car on it. Maybe there's some folks in high places that are afraid to get a little dirt on their luxury vehicle. :rolleyes:
I can hear the whining from here: "...every time I go there I have to get my Escalade detailed!"
 
The gravel roads there are horrible and trying to get much past dutch john trail head sucks. All the rocks sticking up out of the road pose a problem to low cars, and the continuous washboard makes it so people are stuck going 5mph. PAVE THE ROADS!!!! To think that paving is going to bring in hookers and drugs is ridiculous.
 
yodaman88 said:
The gravel roads there are horrible and trying to get much past dutch john trail head sucks. All the rocks sticking up out of the road pose a problem to low cars, and the continuous washboard makes it so people are stuck going 5mph. PAVE THE ROADS!!!! To think that paving is going to bring in hookers and drugs is ridiculous.
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That’s the truth the dealers and pimps are already at Uwharrie
 
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