ATV poll on News14

[Kevin Lawler]

This (http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/sessions/2005/bills/senate/html/s189v1.html) new bill would make my 9yo an outlaw. :D He rides a 50cc Eton Viper (http://www.etonamerica.com/Prd_RXL50M.htm).

http://rdu.news14.com/shared/poll/?PollID=691&SecID=156

[OBX Fisherman]

According to that bill all ATV riders must wear a helmet and have eye protection. The news reports I've heard about it have not mentioned that, only the age and engine restrictions. Has the bill been passed yet?

Gary R

[Kevin Lawler]

I got an email from my state senator last night. He said it was submitted in committee on the 19th. He will be adding an amendment to it that would allow 6-12 year olds to ride smaller ATV's. The committee voted down the proposal to ban anyone under 16 from riding one.

[05Coly]

I don't think any of it is a good idea to me. a 15 year old is too big for a 90cc quad! Its the parents responsibility to control what their kids ride, not the governments, if the parents wanna let their kid ride one, or a bigger one then so be it. The worst thing that can happen is natural selection in my opinion.

[Flipper]

Will this be enforceble on private land?? I mean, a kid can learn to drive a vehicle in a field at the family farm legally, but not an ATV?

[kcarroll]

Kevin,

Just what we need, more laws. Govt. hand-holding, I just don't know how we would ever make it without big brother.

My specific problems with it are ....

"(d) No person shall operate an all‑terrain vehicle in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger or cause injury or damage to any person or property." <------- this is a judgement call that I should be able to make for myself and should not be written into a law.

AND

"§ 20‑171.15. Safety training and certificate.

(a) On or before May 1, 2006, every all‑terrain vehicle operator born on or after January 1, 1990, shall possess a safety certificate indicating successful completion of an all‑terrain vehicle safety course sponsored or approved by the All‑Terrain Vehicle Safety Institute.

(b) On or before October 1, 2006, every all‑terrain operator shall possess the safety certificate required by subsection (a) of this section."

Give me a break.

[05Coly]

is riding a wheelie on my 400ex through my front yard careless and wreckless? So does that make me a law breaker and they should lock me up? :D

[Flipper]

Someone please find out if these proposals will effect private land or only state/federal parks and other public areas

[05Coly]

Someone please find out if these proposals will effect private land or only state/federal parks and other public areas

I can't see any possible way for them to enforce it on private property.

And if i'm reading that right their complaining about 182 ATV related deaths in 20 years!? Thats not a very high number if you ask me (1982-2002).

I don't have to worry about this since i'm way over any of those age limits, but I still don't appreciate the government trying to regulate that crap. I'd like them to try and make me get a safety certificate after i'v been riding for years on dirt bikes and now I got a Quad. I had to wait until I was 18 to even get on a jet ski because of similar garbage, but you can take a safety course online and get a certificate at 16 that allows you to ride, I was almost 18 already then though anyway. I guess the water craft thing seems a little more reasonable to me, it is more dangerous and requires a little more mature thinking and common sense than riding an ATV I think. The whole ATV deal is rediculous I think though.

[Flipper]

One provision I actually I agree with: (e) No person shall operate an all‑terrain vehicle on any public street, road, or highway except for purposes of crossing that street, road, or highway.

Currently you have to "walk" your atv across the street

[05Coly]

One provision I actually I agree with: (e) No person shall operate an all‑terrain vehicle on any public street, road, or highway except for purposes of crossing that street, road, or highway.

Currently you have to "walk" your atv across the street

How do you "walk" and ATV accross a road? Its not like its a 200 lb dirt bike, some of those utility quad weigh upwards of 600+ lbs! I don't think I could hardly "walk" my 400ex Sportrax accross a road, I do ride it accross a road quit frequently though.

And its already plenty illegal to operate them on public roads anyway, so thats nothing new.

After reading some more on the news site its a 1000 dollar fine and a misdemeanor if you don't get the safety certificate, and that applies to all riders. Even us guys who are well over 18 years old now, thats just retarded, if it passes I don't plan on getting it, I don't need one, and I wanna see them chase me down to fine me :cool:

[Flipper]

^^ I know its almost impossible to walk most ATV's, but my best friend got a ticket for riding across the street from his house into a field, I've seen and held it.

[Kevin Lawler]

In my opinion this is a knee jerk reaction to a bad accident earlier in the year. A father was riding with his 2 daughters and a family friend on the same atv. He was trying to outrun the sheriff and wrecked killing himself and seriosuly injuring his daughters.

[05Coly]

In my opinion this is a knee jerk reaction to a bad accident earlier in the year. A father was riding with his 2 daughters and a family friend on the same atv. He was trying to outrun the sheriff and wrecked killing himself and seriosuly injuring his daughters.

And if I read this right, this law isn't going to have any affect on that accident, first of all, the guy was old enough to ride obviously, and its already illegal to be on the road, and every ATV I have seen specifically states to never ride passengers.

So that accident really doesn't have anything to do with bill their talking about in my opinion, people will still ride passengers and be fools regardless of whether that bill gets passed or not and that accident would have still happened.

[The Beast]

And if I read this right, this law isn't going to have any affect on that accident, first of all, the guy was old enough to ride obviously, and its already illegal to be on the road, and every ATV I have seen specifically states to never ride passengers.

So that accident really doesn't have anything to do with bill their talking about in my opinion, people will still ride passengers and be fools regardless of whether that bill gets passed or not and that accident would have still happened.

Sounds like the same people trying to ban guns. All the laws are already there, just enforce the ones we have. It's just overkill. :rolleyes:

[toyota231]

As much as i hate to see it im glad that someone is finally taking action about all this crap. Im tired of hearing about people (especially children) getting killed on fourwheelers because of something stupid. It makes everyone else look bad that actually try to do things right and just have a little fun. Also how hard is it to push an atv across the road? I do it everytime i cross the road, and no i dont own a small fourwheeler. I own a Raptor which is over 400 pounds dry weight, and i just sold a kodiak 450 with 27 inch mud tires and i pushed both of those across the road everytime. Yes i used to just ride across until the one time that a cop saw me, chased me, almost ran over me with his car, and pulled his gun on me. So needless to say i try to obey the law because cops are everywhere in our area. All this just really gets to me because its gonna end up being like the late 80's all over again when there were all the problems with the 250R 3 wheelers and fourwheelers and its really going to hurt everyone that rides.

[Kevin Lawler]

I don't have a problem with outlawing kids riding on adult machines but my 9yo kid rides a 50cc youth model under my direct supervision. Are you saying that he shouldn't be allowed to do that?

[The Beast]

As much as i hate to see it im glad that someone is finally taking action about all this crap. Im tired of hearing about people (especially children) getting killed on fourwheelers because of something stupid. It makes everyone else look bad that actually try to do things right and just have a little fun. Also how hard is it to push an atv across the road? I do it everytime i cross the road, and no i dont own a small fourwheeler. I own a Raptor which is over 400 pounds dry weight, and i just sold a kodiak 450 with 27 inch mud tires and i pushed both of those across the road everytime. Yes i used to just ride across until the one time that a cop saw me, chased me, almost ran over me with his car, and pulled his gun on me. So needless to say i try to obey the law because cops are everywhere in our area. All this just really gets to me because its gonna end up being like the late 80's all over again when there were all the problems with the 250R 3 wheelers and fourwheelers and its really going to hurt everyone that rides.


I'm sorry, I have to disagree. There are already too many laws on the books now.
What they need to do is start charging parents with RESPONSIBILITY. I know 2 kids that were killed on a 4-wheeler, only about a mile from my house. You know what they were doing? They were jumping up a small embankment onto the ROAD!! In their very own FRONT YARD, with their very own PARENTS WATCHING. Jumped right into the side of a car. I hate to say it and sound cold, but until parents start making smart decisions for their kids and teaching them how to be adults, we will continue to decline as a society.
Just like stupid littering on our trails or going off the trails, it's all about parenting and how they were raised. My dad would have made me get out pick up the trash and possibly walk home.
Laws aren't going to stop disrespect and stupidity. Laws only stop the law abiding. Which leaves out most of the people causing the problem anyway.

[Hyperlite]

I was in Uwharrie last week and there was a quad with 1 adult and 3 kids (6-10 years old) sitting in the front and rear racks one helmet dangling from the rear rack. There was plenty of helmetless dumbasses riding with their youngsters in their laps.
There are good points to this that I like to see.
--helmet laws
--only one passenger and driver

I remember when I was 11 and they past a pwc law saying you must be 16 or 13 with boating course. I had to ride on the back for 2 years but now I feel it is a good idea cause those things are very dangerous just like ATVs in the uneducated hands

[05Coly]

As much as i hate to see it im glad that someone is finally taking action about all this crap. Im tired of hearing about people (especially children) getting killed on fourwheelers because of something stupid. It makes everyone else look bad that actually try to do things right and just have a little fun. Also how hard is it to push an atv across the road? I do it everytime i cross the road, and no i dont own a small fourwheeler. I own a Raptor which is over 400 pounds dry weight, and i just sold a kodiak 450 with 27 inch mud tires and i pushed both of those across the road everytime. Yes i used to just ride across until the one time that a cop saw me, chased me, almost ran over me with his car, and pulled his gun on me. So needless to say i try to obey the law because cops are everywhere in our area. All this just really gets to me because its gonna end up being like the late 80's all over again when there were all the problems with the 250R 3 wheelers and fourwheelers and its really going to hurt everyone that rides.

I"m not brave enough to push my quad accross the road I normally cross, visibility coming out of my driveway is limited and its much easier to see down the hill if i'm standing up, I would feel MUCH safer riding accross than being a turtle and pushing it accross.

[toyota231]

I don't have a problem with outlawing kids riding on adult machines but my 9yo kid rides a 50cc youth model under my direct supervision. Are you saying that he shouldn't be allowed to do that?

No that shouldn't be outlawed because there are responsible parents out there that actually do watch there kids. I got my first fourwheeler when i was 3 years old and up until this year i have not been without one. I have had every sport fourwheeler Yamaha makes( including a raptor, banshee, blaster, warrior, and i have also had a timberwolf and a kodiak 450 and more). During those 18 years i have only had two wrecks and none were seriouse and this includes the racing i have done. My parents stayed right with me when i rode and they taught me very early the proper riding techniques and i beleive that has helped me stay safe. That is what needs to be done with children and i am glad to see that there are parents out there that will take responsability and watch there kids. All i am really saying is that something needs to be done about all the idiots out there that are helping to cause the demise of the sport. I dont agree with all the laws but im just glad to see that something is finally being done thats all.

[bigmackloud]

Hey,

the whole "walk" your atv across the street is just stupid. that's more dangerous than riding across the street. you're moving slower and can't get out of the way quickly if a car comes flyin' down the road.

but i don't really understand provision (e). it's already illegal to ride an atv on a public street. i guess the point is to make "crossing" the street ok, which is good.

i really think people should be more responsible for their actions. some general guidelines are helpful, but really it's a parents responsibility to ensure their childs safety. i do think it's stupid to ride w/o a helmet though. i had a quad before my CJ, and no matter how hot it was, i always wore my helmet. never even came close to needing it except for one time, and that one time made me realize how quickly you can loose control and head for a tree, lol.

later,
bigmac

[Kevin Lawler]

Excerpt from an email from my senator. He was the one that introduced the amendment.

"I want you to know I receive 100s of e-mails. Your correspondence with me is the first e-mail that drew my attention to an issue I knew little about. Upon review of articles and your input, I ended up agreeing with your position and advocated your position."

Committee Approves Bill To Bar N.C. Children From Driving ATVs

POSTED: 2:56 pm EDT April 26, 2005
UPDATED: 4:18 pm EDT April 26, 2005


RALEIGH, N.C. -- In one of the few states that imposes essentially no restrictions on who may drive an all-terrain vehicle, a Senate committee approved a measure Tuesday that would block children younger than 12 years old from operating the popular motorbikes.

The bill would outlaw young children from driving three- and four-wheeled off-road vehicles, while those age 12 to 15 could operate smaller ATVs under an adult's supervision.

Robert Schafermeyer, a doctor at Carolinas Medical Center in Charlotte, said his hospital treats dozens of children annually - nine so far in 2005 - who have been hurt while using ATVs. Many suffer severe head, neck or spine injuries, sometimes causing permanent disabilities, he said.

"As a physician and father, this is painful to watch," Schafermeyer said. "As a father, I ask you to (pass) this. We should protect our children."

The measure would also set requirements for safety equipment, safe operation and areas where the vehicles could legally be used. It would also require all ATV drivers to complete a safety course by October 2006.

Violations would be misdemeanors, with punishments varying from a maximum fine of $200, to 60 days in jail and a fine of up to $1,000 for disregarding the age restrictions or operating an ATV on public roads and highways.

If passed by the full Senate, the measure would become law effective Oct. 1.

North Carolina is now one of five states with essentially no restrictions on ATV use.

The state was ranked 10th nationally with 189 ATV-related deaths from 1982-2002, according to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission. Tom Vitaglione, co-chairman of the North Carolina Child Fatality Task Force, said the number of ATV-related deaths of children under 16 increased from five in 1999 to 11 last year.

Earlier this month, a 2-year-old girl died and her 5-year-old brother was hospitalized after the ATV they were riding -- being driven by a 9-year-old -- struck a concrete wall in Wilkes County.

The committee, voting 7-6, narrowly rejected an amendment to allow children aged six to 12 to ride smaller versions of the vehicles.

Committee members debated whether setting the restrictions would simply tempt young ATV enthusiasts to turn up their noses at the law and whether they would have any measurable impact on the statistics.

Sen. Martin Nesbitt, D-Buncombe, argued that it's up to parents to protect their offspring by educating them about life's dangers, not closeting them.

"You can't just prohibit children from doing things they're naturally going to try," he said.

But the bill's author, Sen. Bill Purcell, said the tendency for most citizens would be to obey the rules, if any exist, and that would have a positive effect on mortality rates.

He pointed to the state's system of graduated drivers' licenses, which grants teenage drivers progressively greater freedom on the road as they age.

The program has been credited with cutting the death rate of 16-year-old motorists by 34 percent since it was started in 1997, the University of North Carolina Highway Safety Research Center reported last month.

"If you don't get on an ATV, you're probably not going to get killed by one," Purcell, D-Scotland, said.

[Flipper]

Come on people, these machines are not operated on public roads and are not registered! 189 deaths in 20 years? I know children that have been killed on these, but as stated above it typically has alot to do with the lack of quality supervision. Thay being said, more people were killed by lighting in Florida in the last 20 years than that. LIGHTNING!!!! ATV's are machines, much like tractors, lawnmowers, and even buggies. One day after their are no more public OHV areas and you are reduced to wheeling on private land and the government still steps in to regulate your tire size, height, etc, you will change your tune.

[Jones4WD]

I am to against this amendment. Some stupid parents allow there 6 year olds to ride 600cc machines and they end up hurt and the rest of us suffer. I have been riding atv's since I was 11 and I would hate it if my son or daughter wouldn't be able to do the same when they are young. If you oppose this sign this.

http://www.petitiononline.com/atvnc1/petition.html

[Kevin Lawler]

Sen Doug Berger (D-Granville) introduced an amendment to 189 in committee that would allow 6-12 year olds to ride smaller youth models. I think he agreed with ATVers and the CPSC and ANSI that 6-12 year olds can safely ride factory youth models. The amendment was defeated 7-6 in committee. He was promised support from Republicans. The only hope we have is for the bill to be defeated in the full senate vote or that this amendment be re-introduced on the senate floor. Sen Berger told me he wouldn't introduce it if he thought it would be defeated. Email your senator and ask him to support the amendment.

[Legal Eagle]

I won't weigh in with my opinions on whether or not this is a good thing, but I will make a couple of technical clarifications on the bill itself and the information posted here.

The Senate Commerce committee passed a committee substitute yesterday. I can't give you a link to the new version yet, because it hasn't been updated online, I can only access it through my internal network. The key thing they changed is that the safety certificate now only has to be possessed by any operator born on or after January 1, 1990 and they have until October 1, 2006 to get it.

An additional clarification on the criminal penalties. The news article didn't have it quite right. The only offenses that are a misdemeanor are the age restrictions, the prohibited acts by sellers, and the driving on the road, interstate or limited-access highway (it still has the provision allowing you to drive to cross the road). Those offenses are Class 2 misdemeanors which are punishable by a fine of up to $1,000, however as a practical matter the fine would likely be much lower. A first offense would be punishable by up to 30 days of community service punishment. You would have to have prior criminal offenses to be punished at a higher level and the absolute max would be 60 days active time (not likely for this type of offense, but possible).

All other violations of the provisions of the bill (such as the eye protection & helmet) would be infractions (non-criminal offenses) punishable by a maximum fine of $200.

Additionally, just as a point of information. If someone under 16 is charged with a misdemeanor, they would be dealt with in juvenile court and it would be on their juvenile record, which is a civil record and could not be used against them later.

Just want to make sure everyone has their facts straight.

[BoltOnJohn]

This makes me so mad I can't see straight.

We should change our national anthem.

"Land of the free and home of the brave" to..

"Land of the overregulated and home of the chickens."

I bought one of these deathtraps (tiny 2 stroke ATV) from Kevin Lawler for my daughter (now age 6 1/2) to ride and she's had a blast. I've got the throttle limited so her top speed is about 10mph, she wears her helmet, and she knows how to operate the brakes when faced with a concrete wall.

I guess I'll need to toss it in the dumpster, since no 12 year old will want an ATV this size, and buy a much safer (HA HA HA) dirt bike for her.

When and where will this crap end? We all have to make our own choices about what is safe enough. Well, I guess not, we'll let mommy government decide for us.

Stuff happens in life. There are no guarantees. Do you want to live every day afraid of dying? That's the way these regulations seem to me. People can't accept accidents or bad luck these days. I'm really surprised skateboards are still legal.

[Flipper]

Legal Eagle, thanks for the information, very clear, you should be in broadcasting. I am glad to hear most of these laws will not carry criminal consequences, otherwise I'd be in court off and on for awhile. john, you make an interesting comment on dirtbikes, I've seen many more dirtbike spills than atv spills at URE

[05Coly]

Legal Eagle, thanks for the information, very clear, you should be in broadcasting. I am glad to hear most of these laws will not carry criminal consequences, otherwise I'd be in court off and on for awhile. john, you make an interesting comment on dirtbikes, I've seen many more dirtbike spills than atv spills at URE

Kind of interesting that you can buy a ATV for your kid but you can a dirtbike, but in my eyes a dirt bike isn't quite as dangerous other than the fact their a little faster and harder to ride. But usually falling over on a dirt bike doesn't cause as many severe injuries because of their size and weight compared to an ATV rolling over somebody.

[Kevin Lawler]

RALEIGH

The sponsor of a bill to forbid use of all-terrain vehicles by children under 12 pulled the bill from the N.C. Senate floor yesterday after complaints from hunters, farmers and tracks where youngsters race ATVs.

But the mother and grandmother of a Wilkes County 2-year-old who was killed this month in an ATV accident said yesterday that no one under 16 should ride the vehicles.

"I don't want anybody else to lose their baby and have to go through what I'm going through," said Christina Carver, the mother of Analyss Marie Carver. "That was my baby, and I've lost her and I can't have her back."

Analyss was killed and her 5-year-old brother received a concussion on April 17 when she pushed the accelerator on a full-size ATV that a 9-year-old had just dismounted. The vehicle slammed into a wall.

"She didn't know how to push it and make it go slow or go fast, and it just went all the way," Christina Carver said.

Though the 9-year-old was a family friend who regularly rode an ATV, Carver said, no one under 16 should be allowed to use the vehicles. "I do not believe they have the mental ability to know whether they should or shouldn't cut it off," she said. "Children just don't have that judgment.... Anything can happen in a split second."

Analyss's grandmother, Diane Gentry, echoed her daughter's words.

"I do not think anyone under the age of 16 should be allowed to operate them. They are dangerous in the hands of anyone not capable of making such a decision," Gentry wrote in an e-mail message to the Winston-Salem Journal.

"And it seems like some parents are not capable of making the same decision either, so the law should step in and make that decision for them," she wrote.

Though pediatricians and emergency-room physicians say that no one under 16 should ride ATVs, the industry says that riders as young as 6 can safely ride vehicles sized for youngsters.

A bill in the Senate compromises by banning the use of ATVs by children under 12. It would require all riders to complete a safety course and wear helmets. And it would ban the use of ATVs on public roads and rights of way.

But the sponsor, Sen. William Purcell, D-Scotland, pulled the bill from the floor before it could be debated yesterday. Purcell said he was responding to complaints from hunters who use ATVs to reach deer stands and duck blinds, farmers who use them to take feed to animals, and a racing circuit with tracks in Elizabeth City and East Bend where young riders race ATVs.

"We may be exempting a few areas," Purcell said.

The restrictions on ATV use would be the first regulation of the vehicles in North Carolina. Purcell, a retired pediatrician, noted that states with safety regulations have half of the death rates among child ATV riders than states without regulations.

Purcell acknowledged that it might be difficult for deputies and other law-enforcement officers to enforce the proposed rules, especially on private property. "It is very difficult to police this," he said.

But he pointed to the state's success with laws on children's safety seats and the reduction in deaths of 16-year-olds that resulted after the state adopted graduated driver's licenses.

"I think there are law-abiding people out there. Once you pass a law, most people will abide by it," he said.

A study published last year in the journal Pediatrics compared ATV injuries and deaths among child ATV riders in North Carolina to those in Pennslyvania, which has regulated ATV use since 1985. Pennsylvania does not allow children under 10 to ride ATVs on public land or recreation areas and requires riders under 16 to pass a safety course. All riders must wear helmets.

"Living in Pennsylvania was associated with decreased risk factors for ATV injury, such as young age and riding unhelmeted," the researchers at UNC Chapel Hill and the University of Michigan concluded.

In 2002, the study said, children under 16 accounted for 33 percent of ATV-related deaths and 37 percent of ATV-related injuries reported to the Consumer Product Safety Commission. Children under 12 accounted for 10 percent of the deaths.

But the staff of the Consumer Product Safety Commission recommended this year that the commission not adopt a ban on sale of ATVs for children because it would be too hard to enforce.

The safety commission "cannot control the behavior of consumers or prevent adults from allowing children to ride adult-sized ATVs," the report said.

[rattlecanpaint]

I'm damn glad to hear that it was pulled. That woman who lost her child has a sad story, but ultamatly, what the hell was she doing letting a 2 year old on an atv without her?! Sorry if you think the government should raise your kid for you but you played, now it's time to pay! IT'S YOUR JOB TO RAISE YOUR KIDS! NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S! If you don't want to raise kids, DON'T HAVE THEM!

Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now.

[Flipper]

Thank the Lord cooler heads have prevailed. My faith in NC has been restored

[BoltOnJohn]

RALEIGH

......

But the sponsor, Sen. William Purcell, D-Scotland, pulled the bill from the floor before it could be debated yesterday. Purcell said he was responding to complaints from hunters who use ATVs to reach deer stands and duck blinds, farmers who use them to take feed to animals, and a racing circuit with tracks in Elizabeth City and East Bend where young riders race ATVs.

"We may be exempting a few areas," Purcell said.

The restrictions on ATV use would be the first regulation of the vehicles in North Carolina. Purcell, a retired pediatrician, noted that states with safety regulations have half of the death rates among child ATV riders than states without regulations.

Purcell acknowledged that it might be difficult for deputies and other law-enforcement officers to enforce the proposed rules, especially on private property. "It is very difficult to police this," he said.

But he pointed to the state's success with laws on children's safety seats and the reduction in deaths of 16-year-olds that resulted after the state adopted graduated driver's licenses.

"I think there are law-abiding people out there. Once you pass a law, most people will abide by it," he said.

....




It doesn't sound like Purcell has given up on this bill completely.

[Flipper]

In fact I heard on WRAL yesterday they were still going to vote tommorow